2011 Buddy 50cc stalls out after warming up, and at idle

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:35 pm

Not sure what is causing this, the cold weather out here in Boston (14 Fahrenheit). Or something else.

Background, purchased this used 2011 buddy three weeks ago, and it ran like a champ until it got cold/I had to replace the battery. Well the old battery died and was leaking, and the new battery fit great, but the connecting screws for the battery post don't grab. So until I could get to home depot and get some new screws, I screwed the screws in as best as I could, and put electrical tape over the tabs/screws to ensure contact. (Or so I think.)

The problem is after I let it warm up and go out, it just wants to die at idle time. I filled the gas up, checked and added oil, plus added an ethanol negater (this is all after the stalling started) and it still does the same random dying thing. Any clues? Too cold for the buddy? Maybe the battery isn't always connected and that's it? Enquiring minds would love to know.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:10 pm

The condition of the battery shouldn't affect its ability to idle.

Cold is probably a contributing factor, but you can't do anything about that, so I'd suggest checking (or simply replacing) the spark plug, and/or dosing the fuel with Seafoam to see if either of those helps.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:22 pm

TVB wrote:The condition of the battery shouldn't affect its ability to idle.

Cold is probably a contributing factor, but you can't do anything about that, so I'd suggest checking (or simply replacing) the spark plug, and/or dosing the fuel with Seafoam to see if either of those helps.

what sort of plug should I get? can I get it from autozone? link to the right plug on some site if you can?

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:23 pm

This should work.

There's a tool for removing/retightening the spark plug in the little kit attached to the underside of the seat. The plug is located in the center on the front of the engine, and can be found most easily by removing the smile-shaped piece of plastic at the base of the seat between your heels.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:24 pm

I would still double-check the battery. I had the same problem after recharging my battery, and when I opened it up, I saw that one of the bolts had not connected with the little nut under the terminal. After ensuring that it was bolted into the nut well, I've had no more starting or idling issues, and that was over a week ago. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to check just so you can rule it out before trying anything else.

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:47 pm

I also live in Boston. Make sure you turn the idle up. It needs to be readjusted every time the temperature changes drastically. It should be a black knob above the gearbox. Turn it slowly and when the engin is idling.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:06 pm

mukaiboston wrote:I also live in Boston. Make sure you turn the idle up. It needs to be readjusted every time the temperature changes drastically. It should be a black knob above the gearbox. Turn it slowly and when the engin is idling.

Can you be a bit more specific on where it is? Like a pic or something?
Just wondering. Thanks.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:07 pm

anthony wrote:I would still double-check the battery. I had the same problem after recharging my battery, and when I opened it up, I saw that one of the bolts had not connected with the little nut under the terminal. After ensuring that it was bolted into the nut well, I've had no more starting or idling issues, and that was over a week ago. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to check just so you can rule it out before trying anything else.

I don't think I have those little nuts. (oh god that sounds horrid..) Can I just grab matching ones from the hardware store?

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:07 pm

anthony wrote:I would still double-check the battery. I had the same problem after recharging my battery, and when I opened it up, I saw that one of the bolts had not connected with the little nut under the terminal. After ensuring that it was bolted into the nut well, I've had no more starting or idling issues, and that was over a week ago. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to check just so you can rule it out before trying anything else.

I don't think I have those little nuts. (oh god that sounds horrid..) Can I just grab matching ones from the hardware store?

anthony · Post by **anthony** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:49 pm

this:

jenaflynn wrote: I don't think I have those little nuts. (oh god that sounds horrid..) Can I just grab matching ones from the hardware store?

could potentially explain this:

jenaflynn wrote:the connecting screws for the battery post don't grab.

Although I don't know what the 50cc battery is like or how different it might be, but my girlfriend's Sym HD200 has the same little nuts for her battery. They did look like something you could probably easily find at a hardware store; you'd just have to make sure you got the right size. Perhaps in the meantime, someone else with a 50cc could confirm or deny the existence of said nuts? Maybe even provide you with a picture so you'd know what they look like?

TomCat · Post by **TomCat** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:04 pm

FWIW, I have the same problem.
Apparently a 2T engine is pretty sensitive to cold weather. Anything below 45 degrees or so, the engine in my RH hesitates (to the point of stalling if I don't flick the throttle) when accelerating, even after having warmed it up for 10 minutes. Eventually it starts responding normally, usually after I've been almost run over several times by cagers and cagettes.
Not sure why the engine in a scoot is so picky, my snowblower (also 2T) fires up and runs like a champ in way colder weather.

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:28 pm

jenaflynn wrote:
Can you be a bit more specific on where it is? Like a pic or something?
Just wondering. Thanks.

Argh, the site keeps saying "Trying to upload empty file."

Well, it won't let me upload the photo but it seriously isn't that hard. On the left side of the bike, you will see two boxes: a black plastic one on top of a metal one with the kickstart.
The air filter compartment is the plastic black box above the big metal box with the kick start.

What you need to do is put your fingers on the left side of the air filter box and move them directly backward. You will feel the idle knob with your fingers. I swear it is the only thing directly behind the air filter on the left side so you can't miss it.

This knob controls the amount of gas going to the engine. If you turn it up in cold weather, it will allow your bike to idle in the cold without dying.

Turn the knob very slowly clockwise (it is sensitive) until the rear wheel starts to spin. Then slowly turn it counterclockwise until the rear wheel stops spinning.

Or you can keep the rear wheel spinning slightly if you want. I prefer that in winter just to be sure the engine won't fail while I'm stopped.

If you can't find the knob, you can access it by unscrewing the inside of the seat, but this takes more effort and, if you have small hands, you should be able to reach the knob without doing that.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:31 pm

mukaiboston wrote:
jenaflynn wrote:
Can you be a bit more specific on where it is? Like a pic or something?
Just wondering. Thanks.
Argh, the site keeps saying "Trying to upload empty file."

Well, it won't let me upload the photo but it seriously isn't that hard. On the left side of the bike, you will see two boxes: a black plastic one on top of a metal one with the kickstart.
The air filter compartment is the plastic black box above the big metal box with the kick start.

What you need to do is put your fingers on the left side of the air filter box and move them directly backward. You will feel the idle knob with your fingers. I swear it is the only thing directly behind the air filter on the left side so you can't miss it.

This knob controls the amount of gas going to the engine. If you turn it up in cold weather, it will allow your bike to idle in the cold without dying.

Turn the knob very slowly clockwise (it is sensitive) until the rear wheel starts to spin. Then slowly turn it counterclockwise until the rear wheel stops spinning.

Or you can keep the rear wheel spinning slightly if you want. I prefer that in winter just to be sure the engine won't fail while I'm stopped.

If you can't find the knob, you can access it by unscrewing the inside of the seat, but this takes more effort and, if you have small hands, you should be able to reach the knob without doing that.

try uploading the pic at imgur.com and posting the link here?
But I think I got it. I'll report back once I get back from work, and see if that helps.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:17 am

TomCat wrote:Not sure why the engine in a scoot is so picky, my snowblower (also 2T) fires up and runs like a champ in way colder weather.

Probably because your snowblower is tuned for cold temperatures.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:09 pm

jenaflynn wrote:
mukaiboston wrote:
jenaflynn wrote:
Can you be a bit more specific on where it is? Like a pic or something?
Just wondering. Thanks.
Argh, the site keeps saying "Trying to upload empty file."

Well, it won't let me upload the photo but it seriously isn't that hard. On the left side of the bike, you will see two boxes: a black plastic one on top of a metal one with the kickstart.
The air filter compartment is the plastic black box above the big metal box with the kick start.

What you need to do is put your fingers on the left side of the air filter box and move them directly backward. You will feel the idle knob with your fingers. I swear it is the only thing directly behind the air filter on the left side so you can't miss it.

This knob controls the amount of gas going to the engine. If you turn it up in cold weather, it will allow your bike to idle in the cold without dying.

Turn the knob very slowly clockwise (it is sensitive) until the rear wheel starts to spin. Then slowly turn it counterclockwise until the rear wheel stops spinning.

Or you can keep the rear wheel spinning slightly if you want. I prefer that in winter just to be sure the engine won't fail while I'm stopped.

If you can't find the knob, you can access it by unscrewing the inside of the seat, but this takes more effort and, if you have small hands, you should be able to reach the knob without doing that.

try uploading the pic at imgur.com and posting the link here?
But I think I got it. I'll report back once I get back from work, and see if that helps.

Not sure if I found it. I found this knurled small knob (smaller in diameter than a penny) and I was fiddling with that, but it didn't seem like it was affecting the idle too much. Can anyone post a pic for me? Also, getting new nuts for the battery today, maybe that will help.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:28 pm

Well it still sputters and stalls after getting the battery on right, and twiddling the knob back and forth and trying every which way. So it's being taken to the dealer (Scooters go Green in So Boston) and hopefully it will be back to working shape in a few days. Damn.

Yay that it will be worked on, but boo I'm going to have to ride it back home all the way from south Boston to Medford Ma. I love riding, but ugh, it's going to be a haul.

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:05 am

I live in Salem, MA and ride every day. I deal with the cold this way. Remove gas cap. Kick start it. If it konks out then you know it is very, very cold. Kick start it again and let it warm up a bit more, then drive it. Always works for me...

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:06 am

PS. Put gas cap back on before you drive it !

jdanderson1449 · Post by **jdanderson1449** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:43 pm

Typically, all these Chinese motors ship from the manufacturer with tight valves. They start and run fine until they warm up. After that they run ok with the throttle open but when the throttle is closed the motor dies. My guess is that your valves need to be adjusted. It could very easily be mistaken for fuel delivery issues but any knowledgeable technician with a set of feeler gauges can fix your problem in under an hour.

Hope this helps.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:54 pm

It's the cold. Mine does the same and it's a 2013. I tried so many things then we had a warm day and it didn't do it. The cold is making it stall. You have to warm it up much much longer when it's that cold.

TomCat · Post by **TomCat** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:31 pm

Typically, all these Chinese motors ship from the manufacturer with tight valves

Not a Chinese motor

Probably because your snowblower is tuned for cold temperatures. Smile

Then why does my snowblower run fine in May when burning off any fuel left in the tank?

jdanderson1449 · Post by **jdanderson1449** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:39 pm

I did misread that the initial post was about a 50 and not a 150. The GY6 is a Chinese copy of a Honda design. I work on these things almost daily. Just sayin'.

jdanderson1449 · Post by **jdanderson1449** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:42 pm

Also, your snowblower is a 2 stroke, no valves to adjust.

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:25 pm

jenaflynn wrote:
Not sure if I found it. I found this knurled small knob (smaller in diameter than a penny) and I was fiddling with that, but it didn't seem like it was affecting the idle too much. Can anyone post a pic for me? Also, getting new nuts for the battery today, maybe that will help.

Here is a picture of my engine: http://imgur.com/6PTfhOj

I can't photograph the knob itself because it is covered by the black air filter. The knob faces left and is on the left side directly behind the black air filter.

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:50 pm

jenaflynn wrote:Well it still sputters and stalls after getting the battery on right, and twiddling the knob back and forth and trying every which way. So it's being taken to the dealer (Scooters go Green in So Boston) and hopefully it will be back to working shape in a few days. Damn.

Scooters Go Green is not the only place to go.

My scooter mechanic is in Medford: Frank at Smooth Scooters (now called Smooth Automotive I think).

Here is why you want to avoid going to Scooters Go Green. These guys are great salesmen but, in the end, they just want your money and they will overcharge you for stuff. The only time you should go there is:
1) Fix something covered under warranty because its free (If you bought yours used, it's a no go. The warranty can't transfer owners I don't think)
2) Buy a part that you can only get from a dealer. But I buy parts there; I don't have the guys there do the repair. They did mess up a simple oil change for me once and I don't like double-checking their work.

Anyway, I would at least have Frank look at it first because he can then tell you if he can fix it before you have to go into South Boston.

If you are interested, let me know first because I need to call him and see how he feels about new scooter customers. He had so many problems with people bringing in cheap, Chinese scooters, not taking care of their scooters and flat out trying to break the law (like not having a drivers license because they were convicted of something), that he made it a policy not to service scooters

Still, he makes exceptions for certain people who have a scooter from a reputable company like Genuine and who take care of their vehicles. I think the number of scooter customers he has is quite small at this point because he dropped all the irresponsible ones. I can't promise he'll agree to fix your scooter (it depends a lot on if it has been previously taken care of) but I can ask him what his policy is on new customers if you want.

And I'm not trying to advertise this guy as there are several mechanics in the area. I live in Somerville and consider it a waste of time to drive into South Boston when my trusted mechanic is ten minutes away from me and I know he's an honest guy.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:00 pm

mukaiboston wrote:
jenaflynn wrote:Well it still sputters and stalls after getting the battery on right, and twiddling the knob back and forth and trying every which way. So it's being taken to the dealer (Scooters go Green in So Boston) and hopefully it will be back to working shape in a few days. Damn.
Scooters Go Green is not the only place to go.

My scooter mechanic is in Medford: Frank at Smooth Scooters (now called Smooth Automotive I think).

Here is why you want to avoid going to Scooters Go Green. These guys are great salesmen but, in the end, they just want your money and they will overcharge you for stuff. The only time you should go there is:
1) Fix something covered under warranty because its free (If you bought yours used, it's a no go. The warranty can't transfer owners I don't think)
2) Buy a part that you can only get from a dealer. But I buy parts there; I don't have the guys there do the repair. They did mess up a simple oil change for me once and I don't like double-checking their work.

Anyway, I would at least have Frank look at it first because he can then tell you if he can fix it before you have to go into South Boston.

If you are interested, let me know first because I need to call him and see how he feels about new scooter customers. He had so many problems with people bringing in cheap, Chinese scooters, not taking care of their scooters and flat out trying to break the law (like not having a drivers license because they were convicted of something), that he made it a policy not to service scooters

Still, he makes exceptions for certain people who have a scooter from a reputable company like Genuine and who take care of their vehicles. I think the number of scooter customers he has is quite small at this point because he dropped all the irresponsible ones. I can't promise he'll agree to fix your scooter (it depends a lot on if it has been previously taken care of) but I can ask him what his policy is on new customers if you want.

And I'm not trying to advertise this guy as there are several mechanics in the area. I live in Somerville and consider it a waste of time to drive into South Boston when my trusted mechanic is ten minutes away from me and I know he's an honest guy.

Well it's there, and they have it so... Hrm. I'd be interested in seeing your mechanic, if only because He's in Medford, and I happen to be in medford too. So that works out nicely. I do also have a jonway gy6 scooter that needs some work, ($200 special that I got for my partner).

Let me know. I'm
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gmail.com

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:51 am

Sorry, I keep forgetting to call. I'll try to remember to take care of this tomorrow and get back to you.

jenaflynn · Post by **jenaflynn** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:03 pm

mukaiboston wrote:Sorry, I keep forgetting to call. I'll try to remember to take care of this tomorrow and get back to you.

Sounds good.
It is appreciated

uklemond · Post by **uklemond** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:27 pm

kooky scientist wrote:I live in Salem, MA and ride every day. I deal with the cold this way. Remove gas cap. Kick start it. If it konks out then you know it is very, very cold. Kick start it again and let it warm up a bit more, then drive it. Always works for me...

I live in Rowley above Ipswich, and i scoot into south boston every day come rain or shine. I do however have a 170i.

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:44 am

jenaflynn wrote:
Sounds good.
It is appreciated

I spoke to Frank and he said he doesn't really service scooters, but he might make an exception depending on what your issues are.

He told me that he won't touch any Chinese scooters because they are usually built very poorly. I know that for a spark plug change, even accessing the spark plug on a Chinese scooter can involve dismantling the seat and risking other parts falling off. It's that type of thing he doesn't want to deal with.

I've seen people show up there with scooters that were crap. The owners didn't take care of them and were trying to make crazy modifications. He turned them away at the door without even looking at the scooters.

He said he can look at your Buddy if you want to bring it by. I'm not sure about your other scooter though. You have to ask him yourself.

As long as you want simple stuff done (oil changes, tire changes, brake changes, electrical problems, etc.), he said he can take a look at it. He won't, however, change cylinders or rebuild engines or things like that but I don't think that is what you are interested in.

He has the final say on whether he's going to repair something so I recommend just dropping by and asking if he thinks he can do something.
His name is Frank. My name is Grant. I just called him today.

His website doesn't even mention scooters because he doesn't advertise it anymore, but if you need scooter motor oil, gear oil, etc he still stocks the stuff in his shop. If you need scooter equipment that he doesn't have, he can order stuff for you.

Smooth Automotive Car Care Center
30 Harvard Avenue
Medford, MA 02155
(781) 648-4538

Hope it helps.