2T Stella and sidecar, faster, faster...

[kgatesman]

I have browsed about and learned a good bit. I think I am ready for pointed questions, bear with me, please.

The GF hs a 2005 Stella 2T with a Scooterworks sidecar. I want this baby to go 55 mph, and have already installed a SIP Road pipe and a 98 jet. I am closing on 50 with just her on it (105 pounds), and 45 with me on it (230). Really if it could sustain 55 with her and some luggage, I would be ecstatic. More speed is required to keep up on long club rides.

So what do you recommend, most of what I know is from my P200.

1. Vespa Lords recommend the Polini 177 kit due to heat dissipation advantages. I could do this, no problem, but I am reading all about changing the crank here. Do you have to split the case to change the crank? I have pulled heads off the P200, but don't think I have the motivation to remove the engine and/or split the case on a healthy motor. How much speed is all this work worth?

2. Aerodynamics. People claim the shorty fly screen is worth a couple miles per hour. Any thoughts on this? Does anyone make a kit or have a clue about modifying the sidecar windshield to fold down? I am not a machinist or metal worker. Removing the sidecar is not an option. I think there is 2 mph here, maybe 3.

3. Carburetor? Which one, how much money, how much faster? I have buddies that could help me dial it in.

I know we are only guessing on how much speed this or that is worth, but you can see I am trying to get the most bang for the buck, and do it all myself. Any other ideas on how to get up to 10 mph out of this beast? Buying a P200 engine is not an option; the Vespa guys think this is the way to go, but they don't have to come up with the dough.

Thanks for your insight!

[BuddyRaton]

It's a Stella with a side car. Go with a P200

[viney266]

I also have a sidecar one one of my Stellas...So far your choices are great ( though I ended up with a 103 jet). I did the slightly larger P200 air filter and a "bald john" stack as well.

A 180cc top end (DR, polini etc)is what you will need to get the 55 MPH you are after. You CAN bolt this on a stock crank, BUT you are asking alot of it. A Mazz full circle will give you good torque and will take the extra stress. Yes, you do have to pull the motor to do a crank, something to do over the winter when you have the time. I am still running a stock clutch on mine, but I don't believe it is long for this world, so plan for an upgrade clutch with the 180 top-end.

Also, My ported DR 177 will outrun a stock p200...just sayin

[Dooglas]

The mods that will give you a faster scooter aren't necessarily the ones that will give you a stronger sidecar tug. A sidecar is a big handful for a 150 engine and you really need more torque as well as more hp to move the rig. I think the guys at the shop are right when they suggest a p200 engine - or a 180 big bore kit - as options that could make a difference. When it comes to sidecars, the more beef the better .

[fisher1]

Really if it could sustain 55 with her and some luggage

I donno about a 150 or 200 cc scooter and sidecar SUSTAINING 55 with weight of person & luggage.

[kgatesman]

Yeah I know it seems a lot to ask for, but she is committed to three wheels. She is so puny, the Stella/P200 is a lot for her to handle at a stop. So she bought the sidecar when she had a windfall.

No one thinks a carb is necessary at this point?

I can easily do the cylinder kit so I am going to jump in. I think. What does crank failure look like? If the crank fails is it catastrophic to other things on the inside of case? Or is damage limited to the crank?

[viney266]

The 20/20 carb with a good air filter and some upgraded reeds is all you need. The 24/24 carb is a little better for a fast bike, or a modern carb and manifold can really bring out the top-end, BUT you are looking for grunt. A well jetted 20/20 will work fine with a 180 top-end. You have the perfect pipe IMO already. ( yeah I have the same one lol)

[viney266]

I can easily do the cylinder kit so I am going to jump in. I think. What does crank failure look like? If the crank fails is it catastrophic to other things on the inside of case? Or is damage limited to the crank?

Ummm yes...no...maybe. when the crank fails you are def. walking home . The few I have fixed were limited to crank damage and the top end. The cases of the stella are pretty tough and hold up well. The crank coming apart will probably eat the piston though. just FYI

[kgatesman]

Ummm yes...no...maybe. when the crank fails you are def. walking home .

She has legs.

So, Viney, how many of these have you seen? It sounds like the odds of crank failure are high, not if, but when...

[viney266]

Left alone stock ...run good oil, don't run flat out. The cranks can hold...Add a 180 top end, a sidecar and run her flat out...yeah its gonna let go...See my point?

If you want it to be reliable, do a crank if you are going to run it hard.I have a friend with a 2005 Stella with 20k on a STOCK bottom end, so they do hold up when "treated nice"...I just think the sidecar adds alot of stress. You can do a 180 top end fairly cheap if you want to try it. Then add the crank this winter.

[kgatesman]

That's what I expected, we take it on a lot of long hauls, and we run her for all she has for good bits of time.

I am planning on a Mazz crank, Pinasco cylinder and the only thing holding me back is how to manage installing a crank. I am putting feelers out to find a helper with the crank work.

[kgatesman]

In August it broke a piston ring, so a lot of this upgrade activity came due.

We already had a SIP Road. We installed a DR177 kit, 24/24 carb, Mazu crank, replaced the bearings in the engine too. Now the bike is crazy fast through third gear (compared to before) but still has no oomph in fourth.

I am thinking this Spring we will installing a clutch we less teeth. Has anyone done this? The trick will be to gear it down so the new fourth is about the current 3 1/2. If we gear it down so much that fourth becomes third, we won't gain any speed.

I can't talk her into losing the bling or windshield, but I'll bet this is worth 2-3 mph.

Any wisdom is appreciated, and like I said, this is for mid next year. But it can't hurt to dream.

[az_slynch]

Don't change the clutch gear unless you want to change performance for all four gears. The stock clutch has a 21T gear. You can swap to a 20T for slightly shorter gears or 22T for slightly taller gears (~4℅ up gear) without having to split the case and change out any other parts.

I've built two Stella's that would whip on a stock P200 on hills. Both had 60mm stroker cramkshafts. While the kits will give you horsepower at higher RPMs, the stroker will improve the engines torque at the lower RPMs.

[kgatesman]

I want fourth to have more power and be faster than the current third. I am willing to sacrifice a bit in the lower gears.

[Wolfhound]

I run the same sidecar on my TGB R9 151cc scoot. Since I only use it for freight carrying I removed the tall wind shield and the convertable top and
found that in doing so my toip speed increased as did my fuel mileage. If
she does not plan on having a rider aboard that might help some.

[EvilNerdLord]

Does the hack have to be the cozy? I did a search ane found a company in jakarta that offers fiberglass tub ones...though she might be at their weight limit, they are small...

[kgatesman]

We already own the hack. The California sidecar is also f'glass and much lighter, but they don't make them anymore so they are few and far between. Cozy it is.

I think I can get her to lose the windshield, or maybe cut it down. There is no talking her out of crash bars, which I hate. I won't install or remove them, I despise them so much. She has to do it before I will work on her scoot. I asked her, "why do you have crash bars on a scooter that can't fall over?" Angry face is unveiled. Like I said above, it's bling. She likes shiny, shiny, spanky clean. It takes her two hours to wash her scoot, maybe three. I've never been much for washing vehicles.

So the question is, how many teeth does the clutch require to move the current fourth gear to the equivalent of 3.5. If the new fourth becomes equal to the current third, I messed up.

[viney266]

while you were in there you should have done a shorter fourth gear by one tooth, that may have done the trick. To do that now would mean splitting the cases, so the 20 tooth on the clutch will do the trick IF it mates to the stock 68 tooth. I have gone the other way on bikes, but never tried the 20 tooth with a stock 68 primary gear. These will help a bit.

http://www.scooterhelp.com/tuning/vespa.gear.calc.html

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/produ ... +_17473700

double check me on that SIP gear, I'm really tired at the moment ...make sure that one is correct.

Also, if you haven't install a CHT gauge to keep an eye on things