Scooter will not start (even with kick)

ender07 · Post by **ender07** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:02 am

So I have searched the web and this site for a couple days now to figure out why my scooter won't start and I think I am down to a couple of options. Either I am not getting gas to the carb or something with the autochoke may be messing things up. Let me start from the beginning...

I use my 50cc Roughhouse as my commuter vehicle, I didn't ride it for 4 days in a row last week due to inclement weather and when I went to start it up on Monday it would not start with electric or the kickstarter. The battery was just replaced on my wife's scooter so I swapped it out to make sure that it did that same thing regardless of if the battery had a full charge, and it turns on the bike and makes noise like its trying to engage but the engine never turns over. I then tried with the kickstarter and it doesn't do anything, not even a slight cough.

I have checked all the basic stuff: brake handle in, key on, kill switch not active, has 1/2 tank of gas that I filled up last week and added a bit of seafoam when I filled it up...I even took out the spark plug and replaced it and checked to make sure I am getting a spark (which I am). I don't know exactly where to go next and I am in need of either some pictures or guides with what hoses to check, how to see if my autochoke is working, and figure out whatever the heck a stator is, to see if any of those are my problems.

Any help is appreciated!

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:54 am

This would happen to me from time to time when first new. I usually just give it a shot of starter fluid down the carb to help get 'er going. I have a thought that the vacuum line coming off the tank may be getting air trapped in it some how and cause's this 'fuel stall' to happen. Forcing a hard start builds up enough vacuum in the line to free it.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:37 pm

If I am reading your post correctly, neither your battery or another scooter battery would even turn the motor over. That is one step back from gas or spark. That is either two half flat batteries or a problem with your starter. Then you said you could not kick start the bike. Do you often kick start it? In other words, kick starting a small engine can be somewhat tricky. Is this something you frequently do with no problem? I'd be tempted to put your batteries on a tender and be sure they are at full charge before trying various other fuel and spark tests.

ender07 · Post by **ender07** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:05 pm

Dooglas wrote:If I am reading your post correctly, neither your battery or another scooter battery would even turn the motor over. That is one step back from gas or spark. That is either two half flat batteries or a problem with your starter. Then you said you could not kick start the bike. Do you often kick start it? In other words, kick starting a small engine can be somewhat tricky. Is this something you frequently do with no problem? I'd be tempted to put your batteries on a tender and be sure they are at full charge before trying various other fuel and spark tests.

I just bought a brand new battery for my wife's buddy so I ruled out the fact that the starter wasn't working by doing so. I do kick start it at least once per week to make sure it works and it usually starts on the second or third kick.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:18 pm

A new battery is not always a charged battery. Grab some jumper cables and hook it up to a car battery and see if it cranks and/or starts.

ender07 · Post by **ender07** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:10 pm

That's the thing though, when I turn on the scooter all the lights work just fine and the electric start does sound like its trying to turn over the scooter but it just won't get the engine to turn over. I don't think this is an electrical issue because the battery starts my wife's buddy just fine and since I can't start with the kickstarter I kind of ruled it out as being the issue.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:46 pm

If you are correct, and the engine is not turning over when you run the electric starter - then you have a starter problem. If the starter motor is turning and the engine is not, the starter Bendix is probably not engaging.

ender07 · Post by **ender07** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:45 pm

Dooglas wrote:If you are correct, and the engine is not turning over when you run the electric starter - then you have a starter problem. If the starter motor is turning and the engine is not, the starter Bendix is probably not engaging.

But when I press the starter button it engages the spark plug to spark, (which I checked) unless I am missing something...isn't that the point of the electric starter?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:29 pm

Yeah, if it's sparkin', then the starter is engaging and turning the crankshaft, triggering the CDI to fire the spark as the magnet passes the pickup coil. Time to start thinking about fuel and air. You could pull the vacuum line off the manifold and use that opening to spray some starting fluid into the manifold and verify that the engine fires. If so, then it's down to tracing fuel delivery.

Edit: I don't know if the RH has the same vacuum-operated fuel valve at the tank that the Buddy family has. If not, it won't have that vac hose.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:49 pm

ender07 wrote:But when I press the starter button it engages the spark plug to spark, (which I checked) unless I am missing something...isn't that the point of the electric starter?

No, the point of the electric starter is to turn over the engine (as you would otherwise do with a kickstart lever). When the engine turns over, you should get spark and fuel should be drawn into the cylinder as PeteH observes - so your engine is turning over. This all leads to whether you are getting fuel. I don't think the problem is your autochoke as a bike will usually start and then sometimes stumble and die if the autochoke is malfunctioning. More likely a blockage in the carb or a malfunction of the vacuum petcock (which turns the fuel supply from the tank off when the engine is not turning over - as PeteH also mentioned).

VinylDoctor · Post by **VinylDoctor** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:02 pm

ender07 wrote:
Dooglas wrote:If I am reading your post correctly, neither your battery or another scooter battery would even turn the motor over. That is one step back from gas or spark. That is either two half flat batteries or a problem with your starter. Then you said you could not kick start the bike. Do you often kick start it? In other words, kick starting a small engine can be somewhat tricky. Is this something you frequently do with no problem? I'd be tempted to put your batteries on a tender and be sure they are at full charge before trying various other fuel and spark tests.
I just bought a brand new battery for my wife's buddy so I ruled out the fact that the starter wasn't working by doing so. I do kick start it at least once per week to make sure it works and it usually starts on the second or third kick.

usally scooter and motorcycle batterys are not precharged. unless the place does it for you.
and they are shipped dry from the factory.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:39 am

Assuming the battery is charged now, and does work on your wife's scooter so maybe the battery isn't the issue...what happens if you crack the throttle when trying to start it?

iamryan25 · Post by **iamryan25** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:05 am

You have 3 separate systems that could be causing your no start issue, or the unlikely 4th system (the operator).

1) Electrical system - no spark points to problems with CDI, Ignition coil, or Stator (or loose connection, or faulty key ignition). If you are not familiar with testing for spark, have your scooter serviced by an experienced mechanic/dealer.

2) Air system - Your air filter won't let in enough air to allow the bike to breathe properly, not allowing it to start. Visually inspect filter to ensure your filter is clean and ready to let air flow freely. If you are not comfortable inspecting an air filter, have your scooter serviced by an experienced mechanic/dealer.

3) Fuel system - If you have spark, it might be a no gas, too much gas, or carb issue. If you're not familiar with diagnosing the fuel system, have your scooter serviced by an experienced mechanic/dealer.

4) Operator error - is your kill switch on? Is your key on? Probably not the cause, but sometimes it is the culprit.

An authorized dealer or experienced mechanic should be able to get you back on the road for $75-$200, depending on how many systems are not cooperating (usually just one system if you've been riding regularly).

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:31 am

iamryan25 wrote:You have 3 separate systems that could be causing your no start issue, or the unlikely 4th system (the operator).

Useful to review the ender07's original post.

ender07 wrote:I have checked all the basic stuff: brake handle in, key on, kill switch not active, has 1/2 tank of gas that I filled up last week and added a bit of seafoam when I filled it up...I even took out the spark plug and replaced it and checked to make sure I am getting a spark (which I am).

ender07 · Post by **ender07** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:51 am

So I went ahead and tried spraying some starter fluid directly into the carb and started it up with the electric start. It started up really quick and then konked out pretty quick because I didn't give it any gas. I did it again and then gave it some gas and it would idle really high but then start sputtering and die...I think the last time I adjusted my idle mix and speed screws I did it for colder weather and now with it being warmer it's just not getting the proper air/fuel mix. I need to do some more testing to see which way I need to go, but I think it's too rich because the spark plug I pulled out was too black and the exhaust shooting out of there was pretty thick...back to tinkering and thanks so much for the help!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:21 pm

Sounds like you have it isolated to a fuel issue. Progress! I wouldn't think your mixture would be suddenly so far out of adjustment that the bike would not run (unless you fiddled with it in the course of trying to get the bike started

). More likely a clogged idle jet or something of that sort.

ender07 · Post by **ender07** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:16 pm

Yeah, although I think my auto choke isn't working correctly and is stuck off because a few weeks ago when it was colder I dialed in the idle speed and mix but unless I made it really high after being warm it would die after starting for the first couple of minutes from a cold start. I was fine after the engine was warm but I always had to give it some gas at stops until about 5 minutes elapsed. I will take my carb apart soon and attempt to search the YouTube for some how to cleaning instructions, the put it back in and seeking that helps. If not I will look into the auto choke issue and see if that is malfunctioning.