Replacement clutch alternatives for 4T

Spiffy · Post by **Spiffy** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:11 pm

so my clutch is slipping and I want to get a replacement...

let's talk aftermarket clutches...

about the only one I've read about in a Stella is the NEWFREN carbon compound one which seems like it would grab well under pressure...

but not sure which one it would be:
I think it's this one: http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/produ ... +_93117000
this one doesn't look quite right from the pic: http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/produ ... +_93097000
what do you think?

I've heard that the stock cork clutch doesn't do well with synthetic oil, which I'm running... my clutch was already slipping before I switched to synthetic though, pulling a sidecar up a steep hill in the heat is what pushed it over the edge...

what have other people installed into their 4T? links appreciated...

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:17 pm

I have a 2T P200, which has a similar clutch. The clutch and gears ride in the transmission oil, and the top end is independently lubricated. I run Motul Transoil, which is 10W30 non-detergent and meets GL-4 lubrication standards.

The potential headache in the 4T design is that many modern motor oils contain all sorts of additives and detergents, which won't bother your gears but will have a marked impact on your clutch lining's lifespan.

My recommendation is that you look for motorcycle-specific oils that at least carry a JASO MA marking, which indicates that the oil is suitable for a wet clutch. I'd have to do some looking about to recommend a particular oil.

As for clutch plates, Malossi has a plate set that I run in my P. The plates are thinner and allow for one extra friction plate to be installed. I used new stock springs in lieu of the included springs to stave off snapping clutch cables. So far, they've served me well and offer plenty of clamping force.

If you're looking at SIP, check out DRT's 22T clutch drive plate for 7-spring clutches. Looks like an interesting option for stretching the 4T's short gears a little.

P.S. If you do go NewFren, get the one listed first (7-spring). The 4T runs the same style clutch as the P200E and the Stella Atomic Fireball, only it has a 21T drive gear instead of the 23T drive gear of those 2-stroke bikes.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:49 pm

I've used the newfren plates and I like them. I was using them in a heavily modified motor on the CBR with an MMW basket and I scuffed up the steel plates for a little added grab.

This may be overkill for a 4T Stella. I think AZ is pointing you in the right direction and your slippage is a result of the oil you are using.

Also I wouldn't buy a new clutch...just rebuild. It's really pretty easy to do and lots of help from many sites.

Spiffy · Post by **Spiffy** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:39 pm

I'm using AMSOIL motorcycle oil which says it's ok with a wet clutch... and as stated my clutch was slipping before I switched to AMSOIL from the stock oil that the dealer was putting in it...

az_slynch, which Malossi plates are you running? I'm only seeing cork... I figured new springs would help a lot, but you say that just getting better friction plates is enough... but I also want to be able to pull the weight of a sidecar and passenger in warm weather without issues... have you weighted yours down and hit any hills? I hear you guys had wuite the heat wave...

BuddyRaton wrote:Also I wouldn't buy a new clutch...just rebuild. It's really pretty easy to do and lots of help from many sites.

what do you mean by rebuild? I figured I didn't need the entire clutch pack and could probably get away with a friction plate pack in my NEWFREN link... is that what you mean?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:32 am

Spiffy wrote:I'm using AMSOIL motorcycle oil which says it's ok with a wet clutch... and as stated my clutch was slipping before I switched to AMSOIL from the stock oil that the dealer was putting in it...

az_slynch, which Malossi plates are you running? I'm only seeing cork... I figured new springs would help a lot, but you say that just getting better friction plates is enough... but I also want to be able to pull the weight of a sidecar and passenger in warm weather without issues... have you weighted yours down and hit any hills? I hear you guys had wuite the heat wave...

BuddyRaton wrote:Also I wouldn't buy a new clutch...just rebuild. It's really pretty easy to do and lots of help from many sites.
what do you mean by rebuild? I figured I didn't need the entire clutch pack and could probably get away with a friction plate pack in my NEWFREN link... is that what you mean?

Might as well at least replace the brass bushing as long as you're in there.

Crew · Post by **Crew** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:57 am

Spiffy, I have a 2012 Stella with over 5500 miles on it and run Amsoil as well.
So far no problems with the clutch. How many miles on your Stella?

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm

Spiffy wrote:I'm using AMSOIL motorcycle oil which says it's ok with a wet clutch... and as stated my clutch was slipping before I switched to AMSOIL from the stock oil that the dealer was putting in it...

az_slynch, which Malossi plates are you running? I'm only seeing cork... I figured new springs would help a lot, but you say that just getting better friction plates is enough... but I also want to be able to pull the weight of a sidecar and passenger in warm weather without issues... have you weighted yours down and hit any hills? I hear you guys had wuite the heat wave...

Spiffy,

It's been a bit toasty here lately. Still riding, but wishing I had a portable AC unit to strap onto the bike.

I haven't run a sidecar yet, primarily because I don't own a sidecar (yet). I know a local gal with a kitted 2T Stella (177cc) running a 6-spring stock clutch and getting along fine with it. The bigger 7-spring clutch of the P200s, Stella 4T and Atomic Fireballs should have an even easier time of it.

My observation with the Malossi plates was that I could wheelie off the line in first with little effort (even with the late-model, 10hp "slow" engine!) and that the clutch didn't slip on quick gearchanges anymore. I initially tried it with Malossi springs too, but it's a bear to engage the clutch. Since these clutches are 7-spring instead of 6-spring, I really could mix half-Malossi and half-stock on the springs, but the grip on the Malossi corks seems to be just fine with stock springs.

As BuddyRaton, said, there are two brass bits in the clutch. One is the bushing that the output gear rides on. The other is a thin curved washer that fits between the clutch basket and the the input drive plate. Be sure to inspect those while the clutch is apart and replace if needed. Swapping plates is easy, as long as you have a clutch nut tool and a clutch compressor tool (or a good-sized bolt and thick washers). Just be sure to note the order of assembly and to soak the new cork plates in fresh engine oil overnight prior to assembly.

Spiffy · Post by **Spiffy** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:Might as well at least replace the brass bushing as long as you're in there.

is that this thing? no idea what it is, but if it's a wear item then I'll want to replace it...

Crew wrote:Spiffy, I have a 2012 Stella with over 5500 miles on it and run Amsoil as well. So far no problems with the clutch. How many miles on your Stella?

I've got 14,000 miles on mine... but the clutch has been slipping for a while...

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:43 pm

Spiffy wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Might as well at least replace the brass bushing as long as you're in there.
is that this thing? no idea what it is, but if it's a wear item then I'll want to replace it...

Yes, that is one of the things. You'll need this thing too.