Buddy 125 Died & Now Won't Start, No Spark

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:42 pm

I was at a stoplight idling and my 2009 Buddy 125 with 6k miles just died and I could not restart it. I pushed it over 4 miles back home! I have replaced the plug and it didn't work so I stuck a metal piece up the plug boot and put it close to the block while cranking and no spark. Any ideas? I noticed on the + of the battery there is a wire coming off, probably 14 gauge, with two crimp caps on it, it then goes into the stock harness. Is that stock, a fuse-able link or something?

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:10 pm

DKAudio wrote:no spark. Any ideas?

Guidelines

There are numerous forum threads discussing no spark and stator related issues . . click search at top right.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:40 am

Thanks for the guide. I did search, have for a few days. I even have the repair manual but it is for a 2004, pics and diagrams are blurry and I cannot find the CDI! I took off all the plastics and can't see it. I have found the starter relay and ignition coil but no CDI. It cranks fine, just no spark.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:33 am

The CDI is under the front " Little black plastic thing with rubber around it"

no spark sounds like a stator problem.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:52 am

Throwback7R wrote:The CDI is under the front " Little black plastic thing with rubber around it"

no spark sounds like a stator problem.

Could be a stator or just a wiring problem. trace wires from the coil to the ground and CDI. (a meter helps!).

By front, that means under the cover above the front wheel.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:36 pm

Oh, under the front?! Geez, the 2004 repair book I have I can see the rear foot rests and it points to the CDI behind that! Great, I will check that out tonight after work.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:47 pm

This replacement thread will guide you to the CDI.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:18 pm

DKAudio wrote:Geez, the 2004 repair book I have I can see the rear foot rests and it points to the CDI behind that!

That's about where the coil is.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:11 pm

JettaKnight wrote:
DKAudio wrote:Geez, the 2004 repair book I have I can see the rear foot rests and it points to the CDI behind that!
That's about where the coil is.

Yup, I found all the other components. Appears my repair book has a misprint or is for an older model.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:32 pm

Throwback7R wrote:no spark sounds like a stator problem.

Yes. On these bikes the ignition pickup coil is built into the stator. It's the ignition pickup coil that tends to fail, but you have to change the whole stator assembly, so we just talk about the "stator."

Just to make things "interesting," these things sometimes are intermittent when they go, so troubleshooting can be frustrating. What passes for good news in your case is that it's actually dead, so it should be straightforward to troubleshoot.

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:57 pm

jrsjr wrote:It's the ignition pickup coil that tends to fail, but you have to change the whole stator assembly

Trigger pickup resource . . splicing in a replacement does not require removing the flywheel.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Ok, I followed the guide in post #2 and here are the results...

bypassing the switches = no spark
CDI power wire while cranking = 15.5VAC (says it should be 20-100, maybe my battery is a little weak or does this mean the stator is bad?)
Trigger output wire while cranking = .9VAC
CDI output to the primary of the coil (not connected to the coil while measuring and cranking) = 200mVAC (says min to work is 18VAC in guide)
Primary coil resistance = .4ohms

Any ideas on what looks bad? It apears the CDI isn't outputting enough to my coil but is that because the 15.5VAC CDI power input isn't enough from the stator?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:00 pm

We suspect that the ignition trigger component on your stator (see tortoise's picture above)has gone bad and is not outputting a trigger signal to your CDI. That's how the CDI knows when to fire. That's been a fairly common problem all along with the Buddy scooters. Even if the generating part of your stator was bad, the bike should still run off the battery for a while until the battery runs down.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:11 am

jrsjr wrote:We suspect that the ignition trigger component on your stator (see tortoise's picture above)has gone bad and is not outputting a trigger signal to your CDI. That's how the CDI knows when to fire. That's been a fairly common problem all along with the Buddy scooters. Even if the generating part of your stator was bad, the bike should still run off the battery for a while until the battery runs down.

Yeah, and it didn't really do that. It died straight out idling at a stop light, was perfectly fine a second before that. My battery still had tons of reserve to try starting it multiple times during my 4 mile walk back home. So if it is the trigger coil I can replace that without touching the stator, right?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:04 am

DKAudio wrote: So if it is the trigger coil I can replace that without touching the stator, right?

According to this post from above you can.

tortoise wrote:
jrsjr wrote:It's the ignition pickup coil that tends to fail, but you have to change the whole stator assembly
Trigger pickup resource . . splicing in a replacement does not require removing the flywheel.

I haven't done it and don't know the ins-and-outs of just changing out the ignition trigger coil. Once you physically get it in there, you'll have to splice it into the wiring and do a neat job of it. That ignition coil should work, though, because it's intended for GY6 design motors which is what the Buddy's motor is. If you do the swap, please take lots of photos and make a separate thread here so we can document it for our members. Good luck!

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:28 pm

I ordered the trigger coil from tortoise's link (a darn Chinese part, oh well).

One thing I did notice was the lower bolt to take off the flywheel cover is blocked by the exhaust pipe. Do you have to remove the exhaust to get to it or can a 8mm socket be forced in there?

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:13 pm

I think it is just easier to take the exhaust off. I took the cover off with the exhaust on but it was a pain to get it back on, I am pretty sure I had to loosen the exhaust to get the one bolt back in and tight.

I had two stators go bad, first lasted 4,500 miles and the second lasted 3,500 miles. I since went to the NCY stator and it has about 8,000 miles on it with no problems.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:48 pm

DKAudio wrote:I ordered the trigger coil from tortoise's link (a darn Chinese part, oh well).

One thing I did notice was the lower bolt to take off the flywheel cover is blocked by the exhaust pipe. Do you have to remove the exhaust to get to it or can a 8mm socket be forced in there?

Is the stock exhaust different than a Prima? With my Prima there's no need to remove the exhaust. Two 8 mm bolts, two Phillips screws and wiggle it out.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:03 pm

Well, soldered in a new trigger coil and it does the same thing, grrr!

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:06 pm

Bump, What's the next step?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:55 pm

Did you check the stator readings before changing the pickup?

Take your readings and see what they tell you before randomly swapping out parts
http://www.buggydepot.com/buggy-tech-ce ... No-Spark/6

One person I know got frustrated doing that and sold me a Buddy for $335. Took me 20 mins to figure out what was needed.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:56 pm

If it were mine, I'd take a moment to wring out the wiring and make sure I hadn't missed something and then, if that didn't turn up the problem, swap out the CDI. Do you have a friend who has a Buddy that you could swap the CDI from as a test?

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:50 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:Did you check the stator readings before changing the pickup?

Take your readings and see what they tell you before randomly swapping out parts
http://www.buggydepot.com/buggy-tech-ce ... No-Spark/6

One person I know got frustrated doing that and sold me a Buddy for $335. Took me 20 mins to figure out what was needed.

I'm not swapping parts randomly, I posted all my readings above, I was told to do the trigger coil.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:51 pm

jrsjr wrote:If it were mine, I'd take a moment to wring out the wiring and make sure I hadn't missed something and then, if that didn't turn up the problem, swap out the CDI. Do you have a friend who has a Buddy that you could swap the CDI from as a test?

I'm the only one of my friends with a buddy. One has a Zuma and the other a Kymco, both 50 cc.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:24 pm

Maybe I'll just get Stage I GY6 Performance Package from scrappydogscooters

This will work on the Buddy 125, right? Are any other mods needed in conjunction with this?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:42 pm

I wouldn't get the GY6 kit, as the Bud125 ain't exactly a GY6. See ScooterWorks' stage-1 kit.

Still, if you ain't getting spark, (likely a coil/stator/CDI issue), the Stage-1 kit will benefit you exactly zilch. Work the diagnostics routines as mentioned above.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Guys, I worked the diagnostics and posted the results. It seems that no one is seeing that post for some reason. After I posted the results I was told to do the trigger coil, I did it and it did not work.

I'm not getting the voltage I need at the ignition coil. It has to be either the CDI or stator since I already replaced the trigger coil.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:29 pm

DKAudio wrote:I'm not getting the voltage I need at the ignition coil. It has to be either the CDI or stator since I already replaced the trigger coil.

I would order a coil and stator instead of some off brand "performance Package"

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:15 pm

DKAudio wrote:Guys, I worked the diagnostics and posted the results. It seems that no one is seeing that post for some reason. After I posted the results I was told to do the trigger coil, I did it and it did not work.

I'm not getting the voltage I need at the ignition coil. It has to be either the CDI or stator since I already replaced the trigger coil.

Just about any AC fired GY6 cdi will work. The stock buddy CDI doesn't limit your performance in any way though. Its a quality unit. A CDI with increased timing advance will give you a minor increase in power. But many say you get no speed increase. Judging from your readings I'd agree with your diagnosis that the stator is bad. It may also be a loose connection or failed wiring. I would pull the flywheel to backprobe the wiring and check resistance. It may be faulty wiring in the stator. In these situations I always drop by the dealer and say "hey can I borrow a good used CDI". I have been known to drop a case of boulevard off out back too.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:59 pm

I've heard the NCY is much more durable than the OEM stator. Is this the correct one?
http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-stator- ... ts-491.php

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:34 pm

As it says in your link

Not sure if this part will work on your bike? Need to determine the correct fit? Call 1-888-968-3772

You're really making it much more difficult for yourself than it needs to be. Don't look for aftermarket "performance" packages, "racing coil" etc.

Call Scooterworks...tell them "I need a coil and a stator for a 2009 Buddy 125". It really is that easy.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:42 am

DKAudio wrote:Guys, I worked the diagnostics and posted the results. It seems that no one is seeing that post for some reason. After I posted the results I was told to do the trigger coil, I did it and it did not work.

I'm not getting the voltage I need at the ignition coil. It has to be either the CDI or stator since I already replaced the trigger coil.

Apologies. I missed that. I thiink I confused it with a rush-to-replace-stuff thread.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:46 pm

Looks to me like just about any generic GY6 6 pole will work. Many come with a new pickup. Might have to check the pin outs to get them right. Try to get one with the correct connector. Asian scooter wiring diagrams are no fun for me to read though. I had a similar issue getting a new autochoke. Genuine wanted $90. I found a generic for $10.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:02 pm

Erik (member here) verified that he has that on his 09 125 so I ordered it. He said the wiring is a little different but not a big deal. Seems the OEM stator has many issues so I'm going with the NCY.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:56 am

Well, I put in a new stator, same f'n thing!

Two parts left, coil and CDI.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:12 am

ugh. what a frustration this must be

just curious, what would be the cost of just replacing the stator, CDI, and coil all in one go? as to take the guessing out and just go 'head and do it all?

the cost IF doing the work yourself? and how long a job is it if DIY with the right tools?

i ask because it sounds like it could be a good idea to do this routine as just part of basic maintenance. got 12,000 miles on all three components? well let's replace 'em all and go 12,000 trouble free more! hopefully...

if cheap enough to do like that for a DIY'er?

how much you spending on all these parts, OP?

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:33 pm

It is easy to do but I'd suggest an impact gun for flywheel removal and a pulley puller kit. I've spent $90 so far but the frustrating thing is shipping costs and waiting. I guess I'll just get the CDI and coil at this point. Perfect weather for riding in this short season I have here in MN and it has been sitting for weeks, getting upset for sure.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:59 pm

Hang in there DK. The only way to diagnose this any better or cheaper would involve having a source of used parts. Wish you were closer I have a parts bike you could try swapping stuff off.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:21 am

Yeah, thanks for the support, I'll get it. Just ordered a coil and CDI so there is nothing else in the system to be bad. I'll post again once the parts arrive.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:49 pm

Ahahaha, bike still won't start but I have a super strong blue spark now at least! It is probably the strongest looking spark I have seen on a small engine.
I have the NCY stator with trigger pick up coil, performance CDI, performance coil and a new NGK plug, spark is awesome now.
I guess at this point I need to look at fuel delivery too? Any ideas? I have good compression.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:04 am

Wow! How annoying. Start by verifying fuel in the carb bowl. You can do this with the bowl drain screw. Next verify the petcock is getting vacuum and that it is flowing fuel to the carb.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:20 pm

I found a loose hose, it is the fuel tank vent hose. Came from somewhere by the carb, not sure where though. I know it should be connected to something because there is a metal squeeze clamp on the end of it. Any idea if this could be my other issue and where it should be connected?

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:57 pm

picture of the hose should be helpful.

it is either the vent hose or the fuel supply line..
Fuel supply line is connected to the left hand side of the carb and the vent/ vacuum line attaches before the carb to a white fitting on the black hose." right side"

Left side and right as if your sitting on it.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:06 am

Actually, if the other end is connected to the intake manifold between the carb and the cylinder, then that's your vacuum hose for the fuel shutoff valve. If indeed that came loose from the valve at the bottom of the tank, you may have found the issue, as fuel won't flow unless intake vacuum opens that valve.

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:18 am

I don't think we're talking about the same hoses, I see the fuel supply line, that's pretty obvious. I also see the vacuum line you're talking about, it is off the air intake tube. The gas tank vent I'm talking about starts on top of the gas tank on the rear right. It then curves around the tank and goes to a 90 degree fitting of some sort and then runs down to somewhere by carb. The hose in question is the one laying across the carb in the picture.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:29 am

That should connect to the intake on the left side near the bolt, infront of the carb.

You can see on this picture it is connected to the NCY intake "my scoot"

You can see it in this picture

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DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:34 am

If I'm looking at what you're describing, that's where the vacuum line connects from under the gas tank. That's what sucks air and pulls fuel through the in line valve (gas doesn't flow unless there's a vacuum). I'm asking about the line from the top of the gas tank.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:46 am

I guess I am lost a little bit the line that is not connected in your photo goes to the intake. "the NCY part in my photo" so after the carb

DKAudio · Post by **DKAudio** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:50 am

Are you talking about the line in front of your blue fitting? If so, that is not the hose in my picture and not the one I'm talking about. That hose is connected solid and comes from the bottom of my gas tank, not the top.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:22 am

Yea, I guess i do not know where that goes.. after looking really hard at it it does seem like you have the vacuum line " just routed differently " I have a 150 "stock so some differences are noted.

i could look at my 125 in the morning to see where it goes.

Modern Buddy

Buddy 125 Died & Now Won't Start, No Spark

Buddy 125 Died & Now Won't Start, No Spark

Re: Buddy 125 Died & Now Won't Start, No Spark