Lance PCH 125 VS Buddy 50 VS Roughhouse 50

nwbtcw · Post by **nwbtcw** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:47 pm

I am torn between the Lance PCH 125 scooter and the Genuine 50cc 2 stroke scooters (Buddy & Roughhouse).

The Lance 125 is about $100 cheaper than the Buddy 50. Going by that, and the fact that Lance is also a decent quality scooter (SYM), it seems that the Lance 125 provides more value (cheaper and bigger engine).

On the other hand, the Genuine scooters come with a 3-year warranty (temporary special offer) as opposed to the 2 years for Lance. What do people here recommend? Is there something I'm missing?

Also, if you choose the Genuine scooters, would you choose the Roughhouse 50 over the Buddy 50? I realize that the choice would largely depend on aesthetics and how rough I intend to ride it but is there any other difference I should be aware of? I'm told they both have the same motor.

Buddy 50 and Roughhouse 50 - MSRP $1,999
Lance PCH 125 - MSRP $1,899

Thanks for your help in advance.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:08 am

The Buddy (RH too?) is a two-stroke engine, so will probably be peppier off the line than the Lance, but the Lance should have a higher top end than the Genuines. Does that matter?

nwbtcw · Post by **nwbtcw** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:30 am

Syd wrote:The Buddy (RH too?) is a two-stroke engine, so will probably be peppier off the line than the Lance, but the Lance should have a higher top end than the Genuines. Does that matter?

I'm not sure. I know the Roughouse can do close to 49 mph. The listed top speed for the PCH 125 is 60 mph (maybe a bit more realistically). 60-65 mph is a step up from the Roughhouse's top speed but I'm not sure I'd feel safe riding a scooter on a road where cars are going at that speed. But I guess it would be nice to have that option, if I need it occasionally. I mainly intend to use it around town.

The reason I'm confused is because I'm actually paying less to have the option of going on faster roads. And is the difference off the line really significant between the 2-stroke RH and the 4-stroke PCH?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:37 am

I suppose you are just trying to match up prices rather than the capabilities of scooters. I think that is a mistake. If you want - and may need - a 125 then you should consider the Lance 125 and the Buddy 125, also perhaps the Yamaha Zuma 125 and the Kymco Agility 125. Price is only one part of the equation and 2 or 3 years later a few $100 is less important than how well the scooter is performing and continuing to meet your needs.

nwbtcw · Post by **nwbtcw** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:43 am

Dooglas wrote:I suppose you are just trying to match up prices rather than the capabilities of scooters. I think that is a mistake. If you want - and may need - a 125 then you should consider the Lance 125 and the Buddy 125, also perhaps the Yamaha Zuma 125 and the Kymco Agility 125. Price is only one part of the equation and 2 or 3 years later a few $100 is less important than how well the scooter is performing and continuing to meet your needs.

I initially went into it with the recognition that a 50cc scoot would serve me fine. But when I saw that a decent 125cc scooter priced lower than a 50cc scooter, it got me thinking. Is the quality of a Lance scooter really that much inferior in terms of build quality and reliability?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:59 am

i think you can take a look at the scooters and judge fit and finish, at least. idk about the Roughhouse, but the Buddy fit and finish should be superior to the Lance, as well as aesthetic quality so far as materials used. the scooter has a certain character to it, as well

that said, the Lance in my estimation is a lot of scooter for the money. examining a few up close last week fit and finish were good for its price point, and materials used of good construction. its cost cutting is apparent, but not glaringly so. perhaps in the instrument panel, which appears cheap indeed. but the scooter certainly "looks" somewhat more pleasing then my Kymco Agility 125 even if i don't like its "face"

i think you need to ask yourself if you ever need to cruise comfortably with room to spare at 45-50mph. if so, the 50's are out all other things being equal. if you KNOW you will just be on streets with 35mph max speed limits, the 50's are fine. and good choices if you want one. they will go above 35mph but so does everyone else in a 35mph zone. so its about keeping up, not posted speed limits. also hills and inclines and headwinds kill 50's. hell, they are no picnic on 125's tbh

big thing is also SIZE. i sat on a PCH last week. it felt much like my Agility but with a thicker, more softly padded seat and slightly smaller floorboard. the PCH is a "big" small scooter with it's tall riding position and 12in wheels. the Buddy feels sportier and lower to the ground by comparison with it's 10in wheels and smaller seat and overall smaller dimensions. its not any better or worse in this regard, just different. but depending on your size and comfort level its a difference that could make a ....difference

i am 6'3 and 220lbs and fit both scooters fine, but i can tell the difference when i hop off the Agility and get on my Buddy. the Agility just fits me better and is best for longer commutes for me

they are both good scooters, the PCH and Buddy. just which is for YOU and your kind of riding? i have no idea of the Roughhouse

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:05 am

i'm about to SELL a Lance PCH on the MB forum!!!

traitor, yes?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:15 am

BUT...Buddy is WAY cool!!!!!

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:41 am

nwbtcw wrote:
Syd wrote:The Buddy (RH too?) is a two-stroke engine, so will probably be peppier off the line than the Lance, but the Lance should have a higher top end than the Genuines. Does that matter?
The listed top speed for the PCH 125 is 60 mph (maybe a bit more realistically). 60-65 mph...

Assuming that the Lance share the same engine as the SYM Fiddle II, 65mph is not realistic. I could not get to 60 on my FIddle. I agree with what the others have said. The Agility and the Buddy 125 are very good scoots. Very good. If price is a consideration, look for a used Buddy 125 or Agility.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:52 am

i was also thinking OP should look used Buddy or something? but "used" makes some nervous

that 125 is not going 65mph. downhill....maybe

one thing i did not like about the PCH was the seat. its overly contoured imo and it rises at the rear, where part of my butt needs to be because i am tall. THAT was my only complaint so far as "fit" for me. but i think more time with the scoot may have solved it. its hard to tell just by sitting, i gotta ride it

hey OP. look what you can do to a Buddy. they are fun to own like that

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:33 am

And just to scerw with your mind, I just looked at the CARB Executive Orders and noticed that for the model year 2014 (which is only used in the US, and nobody know when 2014 begins in the scooterverse) includes a 150cc engine. Long overdue, in my opinion. Cali, Havana Classic, PCH and Fiddle, if memory serves.

magnato1 · Post by **magnato1** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:30 am

I have no experience with the Buddy or Roughhouse, but I do have a Cali Classic. I've put about 1700 miles on it. It is extremely reliable and easy to ride. I don't think I've ever been able to get it moving faster than 55 mph indicated, so I wouldn't expect anything more from the PCH. But it's very reliable and I enjoy riding it, not as much as my Stella, but, it's apples and oranges. Hopefully this helps a little.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:48 am

Syd wrote:And just to scerw with your mind, I just looked at the CARB Executive Orders and noticed that for the model year 2014 (which is only used in the US, and nobody know when 2014 begins in the scooterverse) includes a 150cc engine. Long overdue, in my opinion. Cali, Havana Classic, PCH and Fiddle, if memory serves.

well thats good news for the SYM / Lance line-up. a bump up in cc never hurt anything and can help a lot in some instances

i also like the Havana. wonder if OP has considered it? personally i would not choose one as i don't favor the low slung seat and traditional styling which leaves no room for under seat storage. i suppose i could make due some other way but i don't prefer top cases. i like onboard, built in storage like Buddy and the PCH have

still, it seems a good looking scooter except for all that chrome. which is subjective, but i hate it. i won't even mention the Cali Classic, whose handlebar gimmick i have come to dislike. but the Havana, yeah i'd take a look if so inclined

i gotta hand it to Lance for sticking it out and doing even more. idk anything about this business but they seem to be moving along, and all the "are they really SYM scooters" nonsense is just that. "made in China?" so what. join the party...

it would seem they are delivering low cost, high value scooters. not the best or brightest but they will point a to point b for you just as well as anything and you get a warranty and dealer support, too. kinda makes up for the "old Lance" imo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcHRjgnoPyY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:27 pm

These discussions always seem to turn out the same. A couple people weigh in on what a good deal they believe they got with various Chinascoots, though they have seldom owned anything else. Others explain how reliable their Buddy or Kymco has been - and the newbie is basically just looking at price.

I won't bother to join the fray - I will just comment that there are a lot of experienced scooter riders on Buddys, and Kymcos, and Yamahas, and Hondas, and Syms. And, yes, there are a lot of experienced riders on Vespas and Piaggios. Are we just naive and don't know a good deal when we see it, or are we riding scooters with greater reliability, better engineering, and higher quality of construction?

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:31 pm

I don't think you should expect "close to 49mph" out of the Roughhouse (or Buddy 50, which is what I have). They have the same engine, and derestricted I can consistently hit 40mph (sometimes a little more) on level ground, but going faster than that requires additional modifications (and if you're going to take that route ... you should just get a 125 or higher instead). If someone told you that they did 49mph on a stock Roughhouse, they were probably fooled by the "overly optimistic" speedometer.

You can do a lot and go a lot of places on a 50cc scooter. If I were in the market today, I'd buy another Buddy 50. In part because, even with over 20K miles on mine... I'm not in the market yet.

But you need to have realistic expectations about the speed you'll get out of it.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Dooglas wrote:These discussions always seem to turn out the same. A couple people weigh in on what a good deal they believe they got with various Chinascoots, though they have seldom owned anything else. Others explain how reliable their Buddy or Kymco has been - and the newbie is basically just looking at price.

I won't bother to join the fray - I will just comment that there are a lot of experienced scooter riders on Buddys, and Kymcos, and Yamahas, and Hondas, and Syms. And, yes, there are a lot of experienced riders on Vespas and Piaggios. Are we just naive and don't know a good deal when we see it, or are we riding scooters with greater reliability, better engineering, and higher quality of construction?

yes but i don't think anyone has mentioned a Chinascoot yet. you're the first

"made in china," yes. but from my experience and that of others that does not equate a chinese scooter. most here know what that is. and they don't come with two year warranties

from what i see Lance is importing low cost SYM scooters. good enough to be sold with a SYM badge on 'em? sure, the guts of these scooters have been in Fiddle's and SYMply's for many years. but Lance likes to deal 'em, too. so they slap their name on them. from what i have seen in person and hear from owners the scooters are worth every penny of their asking price.

more money gets better scooter but $2000 will get you something decent these days above a 50cc, too. if you want it

BeefSupreme · Post by **BeefSupreme** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:38 am

All this talk about MSRP listed on a website, when it comes down to it, MSRP doesn't mean S&*t. You're going to be paying dealer prep/freight/tax/tags... all that jazz. To get a realistic quote your going to have to go to a dealer and ask them the OTD price. If you're really concerned about price, my suggestion is to get something "slightly" used, that's already had its first service. Used will save you a few hundred off the bat, and not having to pay for that first service (depending on your dealer/local shop) will save you an additional 200-300.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:52 am

BeefSupreme wrote:All this talk about MSRP listed on a website, when it comes down to it, MSRP doesn't mean S&*t. You're going to be paying dealer prep/freight/tax/tags... all that jazz. To get a realistic quote your going to have to go to a dealer and ask them the OTD price. If you're really concerned about price, my suggestion is to get something "slightly" used, that's already had its first service. Used will save you a few hundred off the bat, and not having to pay for that first service (depending on your dealer/local shop) will save you an additional 200-300.

Hmm, My Genuine dealer, has been with Genuine since the get go, he also sells Kymco...... Their out the door price is the same as Suggested retail, or maybe 100 bucks less... Taxes not included... I don't think Reputable dealers, at least in my area charge for set up, freight, etc.... Guess I'm just lucky.....to have a GREAT dealer....

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:13 am

SonnyD wrote:Hmm, My Genuine dealer, has been with Genuine since the get go, he also sells Kymco...... Their out the door price is the same as Suggested retail, or maybe 100 bucks less... Taxes not included... I don't think Reputable dealers, at least in my area charge for set up, freight, etc.... Guess I'm just lucky.....to have a GREAT dealer....

Or maybe to live in Kansas.

The costs of doing business (e.g. property, utilities, taxes, payroll) vary substantially from place to place, as do the costs of things like registration and sales taxes, which are commonly included in "out the door" quotes. The bottom line is that the final price can vary a lot from MSRP.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:22 am

Keep in mind that scooter MPH,or motorcycle, is optotimistic by 8-10%.
I automatically deduct 5 mph from what ever speed I am going just
to keep it in the ball park. Genuine and Kymco are good choices but
I would go with no less than a125 or150cc unit.

gitsum79 · Post by **gitsum79** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:41 am

I think the Lance PCH, Havana and Cali Classic are going to offer 150cc models for 2014.

Danielm · Post by **Danielm** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:42 pm

TVB wrote:
SonnyD wrote:Hmm, My Genuine dealer, has been with Genuine since the get go, he also sells Kymco...... Their out the door price is the same as Suggested retail, or maybe 100 bucks less... Taxes not included... I don't think Reputable dealers, at least in my area charge for set up, freight, etc.... Guess I'm just lucky.....to have a GREAT dealer....
Or maybe to live in Kansas. The costs of doing business (e.g. property, utilities, taxes, payroll) vary substantially from place to place, as do the costs of things like registration and sales taxes, which are commonly included in "out the door" quotes. The bottom line is that the final price can vary a lot from MSRP.

Yep, I tried to discuss price with my dealer when I bought mine and basically got a lecture about shipping costs and setup time. Turns out it's nothing like a car dealer. Also, you want to be sure that their "out the door" price actually includes taxes. I was quoted an OTD price only to find out they didn't do transfers there so you get a surprise couple hundred dollars extra when you go down the street to do your tags.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:15 pm

Danielm, at that point you put your money back in your pocket, thank your dealer for his valuable time, and head for the door. Remember the old adage: Money talks, BS walks. If he wants to make the sale he will come around. Also, many dealers have the product on consignment. The longer
it sits on the display floor the more interest they have to pay. In these bad economic times a sale is a sale. If nothing else many dealers will discount the
listed price to get the sale.

Danielm · Post by **Danielm** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:36 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Danielm, at that point you put your money back in your pocket, thank your dealer for his valuable time, and head for the door. Remember the old adage: Money talks, BS walks. If he wants to make the sale he will come around. Also, many dealers have the product on consignment. The longer
it sits on the display floor the more interest they have to pay. In these bad economic times a sale is a sale. If nothing else many dealers will discount the
listed price to get the sale.

Not to thread hijack, but to be honest I considered leaving, but they were the only dealer within a 100+ mile range. For car dealers I've surely walked out before and and been chased back to my car with increasingly better offers and a more polite attitude. Sadly I didn't have as much negotiation power in this case.

Anyway, back to the OP's question on their options, just wanted to remind them to make sure that OTD is a true price and not just "out their door"

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:48 pm

I understand. You dont have much of a choice with them being the only dealer within a hundred miles. We have them all over the place in our area. My riding Buddy is a small dealer and I do business with Floyd Grim at Vespa Marietta, 30 miles from me. He does a great job of tending to his accounts.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:51 pm

TVB wrote:
SonnyD wrote:Hmm, My Genuine dealer, has been with Genuine since the get go, he also sells Kymco...... Their out the door price is the same as Suggested retail, or maybe 100 bucks less... Taxes not included... I don't think Reputable dealers, at least in my area charge for set up, freight, etc.... Guess I'm just lucky.....to have a GREAT dealer....
Or maybe to live in Kansas. The costs of doing business (e.g. property, utilities, taxes, payroll) vary substantially from place to place, as do the costs of things like registration and sales taxes, which are commonly included in "out the door" quotes. The bottom line is that the final price can vary a lot from MSRP.

Our dealer is a good dealer. I heard him quote a $3300ish OTD on a 170i. The lady was a long standing customer though. The deals get better the colder the weather.

Modern Buddy

Lance PCH 125 VS Buddy 50 VS Roughhouse 50

VOTE: Lance PCH 125 or Buddy 50 or Roughhouse 50

Lance PCH 125 VS Buddy 50 VS Roughhouse 50