Weak and/or no spark

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:14 pm

So let me start off by saying that I scoured these forums for info before diving in and adding yet another thread like this.... but after a few days of not being able to ride the Stella to work, I am experiencing withdrawal.

So, here's a little background:
A few days ago, I started the bike, and it ran for about 5 seconds and died.
After that, it wouldn't start.

I checked the spark plug, and there was no spark. Then, checked again and there was a spark, but it seemed very weak. Last night, it seemed to alternate between no spark or weak spark when testing it.

I've been kickstarting the bike, as the battery no longer has the juice to turn the started motor. The lights seem to work and they brighten with each kick to the starter.

Up until the morning it wouldn't start, it was running fine.

The few people I've bounced this by have suggested the regulator or the stator, and it seems like others on this forum have run into this as well. I'm not sure how to go about testing either one of those, but I'm going to pick up a multi-meter after work and and start digging in.

(I'm assuming a weak/dead battery will not prevent me from starting the motor -- since it's got a kickstarter .... but I could be totally wrong on this.)

Any advice is more than appreciated!

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:40 pm

I'd start with the cheapest & simplist approach ..... first put a charger on the battery and see if it will actually take a charge & hold it a bit. Disconnect it from the scoot first.

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:02 am

I'm going to try charging the battery tonight.
But, does the battery play any role in starting the bike when using the kickstart?

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:58 am

I gotta ask......are you the second owner?
If you are the first owner.....off to the dealer.
If you are the second owner, with no warranty, lift off the handlebar cover and disconnect the kill button wiring before any diagnostics.
The switch is very prone to failure and I advise any operators to avoid using it except for the energency shutoff it was designed for.
Frequent use gaurantees failure.....no or sporadic spark.

Rob

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:44 am

Ok - I charged up the battery and disconnected the kill switch. (Assuming that disconnecting the kill switch means removing a wire rather than connecting the two wires that go to it and bypassing it.)

Still not able to start it, but good to rule that out. Here's what I'm noticing:

I am getting a spark, but it's weak. I have to really kick it to get a spark. Using the electric starter, barely produces a spark - or none at all. Mostly no spark at all with the electric starter. This seems like it should be a clue.

Should I be focusing on the regulator at this point? Any thoughts on how to test this or what I should test next?

There is gas going to the cylinder, clean air filter, and the carb is in good working order. Spark plugs are not fouled (I've been testing with 2 different ones). Seems there just isn't enough juice to ignite the fuel....

Oh --- and for what it's worth, the CDI is good. I had a spare that I know works, and that made no difference swapping it out.

Thanks!

PS - Yes, I am the 2nd owner, so no warrantee.

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:25 pm

Does anyone know if the spark plug wires are the same on the 2T & the 4T?

If so.....
I would check the plug cap end of the spark plug wire.
on the 2T's the actual plug cap just screws onto the end of the plug wire.
There is a "screw" on the inside of the plug cap that just bights into the copper part of the plug wire when you twist it onto the plug wire (like you are putting a big nut on a bolt - but don't over tighten)
The cap can and has, come loose on some 2T Stellas.

Good luck getting back on the road

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:38 pm

Good call on the spark plug wire --- that was one of the things I checked. I Snipped off the ends and made a clean connection on both the coil and the plug ends to be sure.

If the regulator or battery was the problem, wouldn't I still at least be able to kick start the bike?

Or, could the coil not be delivering enough elec. to produce a good spark?

The kill switch is disconnected by removing one of the wires. But does the kill switch work by completing the connection of those 2 wires or interrupting it?

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:49 pm

Sorry... I haven't had to deal with any other electrical issues so I cant offer any other advice

Having had a carb issue (on and off this summer) I share your frustration.
I spent hours trying to sort it out but could not resolve it.
I ended taking it to Scooterworks Chicago & they fixed me up for $96.

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:16 pm

http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/se ... s=no+spark

Here's a search on another site that might help.......

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:30 pm

fisher1 wrote:http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/se ... s=no+spark

Here's a search on another site that might help.......

Thanks for the link, fisher1.
I actually did several searches on that site yesterday and again just now with your link.... and I think I am getting closer to figuring out the problem. The search had more meaning today after a few more hours of troubleshooting last night.

I think the problem is the stator - but I'm going to test it and a few other things tonight to be sure.

Based on what I've been reading, asking around, and noticing with the bike, it seems like it could be a short and/or grounded wire in the stator. One of the things I am going to try and check.

Does anyone know if the 2T and 4T stators are alike? I'm finding them online, but none that specifically say LML/Stella 4-Stroke ---- just LML

Thanks!

Stinkdyr · Post by **Stinkdyr** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:05 am

How many miles on this puppy? If in excess of 7000 and it has been ridden a lot in winter/rain etc, then you should suspect your stator. It is located low on the bike and susceptible to corrosion. (ask me how I know this!)

My 2009 RH50 with 9700 miles on her was gradually losing power under load during the last 6 months. I tested/swapped out every part up the food chain....spark plug, ignition wire & coil, cdi, and then...............the stator. Stator was the fix. BE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU GET THE CORRECT REPLACEMENT STATOR, not just one that kinda looks like it might work in there. Make sure the wire connectors match up.

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:09 pm

Yeah ..... I'm pretty sure it's the stator. I was told to test the wires for ground with a multimeter, and a couple were.

I have about 4500 miles on mine --- and have noticed a steady decrease in power the past couple months.

I ordered one and made sure the wire ends had the plastic sockets (3 wire/2 wire)

So, hopefully that's the fix!

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:09 pm

Just installed the new stator last night and bingo!
The scoot seems to be running stronger than I remember it, so the stator must have been on a steady slow decline.

A word of warning : the 4T stator is different than the 2T stator and I found this out the hard way. So, if anyone needs a new LML 2T stator, I have one I'll sell cheap.

Ended up that ScooterWest had the one I needed (but they aren't currently listed on their site) --- should have checked with them by phone to begin with before ordering the other one from India

Question : Is there a chance that there is something else faulty on the bike that would have caused the stator to fail? Only 4500 miles on it.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:56 pm

Which 2T stator did you use, the early one (2003-2005ish) or the late one (2007ish-2009)? The early one has the pulser coil outside of the fan and is compatible with the 4T, so long as you take the stator and pulser off of the backing plate.

The 4T stator failure that I observed was due to a short in the charging coil. There was no visible spark and coil output had fallen to less then 10% of expected output. No visible external damage. I'd guess if was a failure of the potting causing an internal short.

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:08 pm

Oh --- I didn't end up using a 2T stator. I got one for the 4T. The spare 2T stator that I now have has the pickup mounted to the plate, not separate like the 4T.

Yes, the charging coil is what went bad on mine. It was a nice toasty brown color (assuming that's the coil that has the REALLY fine wire vs the others)

Anyway, I looked at the 2T stator I got and it definitely wouldn't have been possible to separate it from the backing plate.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:18 pm

I've attached images of both stator types. The first pic is the late style, the second pic is the early style.

The late one is similar to the Vespa PX and could probably be used in one of the late-style (e.g. Millenium PX) bikes.

The early one can be removed from the plate with three screws in the center of the stator, two screws on the pulser and clip one zip-tie. The plug ends match too.

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:23 am

Good to know , but hopefully I won't have to replace mine again anytime soon. The 2T stator I have is the later variety --- no screws to separate it from the plate. So, I wasn't able to use it.