[NBR] Building A Terrible Scooter

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:44 am

To preface, this project is a bit outside of my wheelhouse. I generally like to keep my bikes as close to stock as possible, and only incorporate modifications if they have a proven track record of reliability and a demonstrable benefit. Pretty boring stuff, all in all. Conversely, I'm not above trying new things to see how they work. I've modified bikes for others before with favorable results. Only in recent memory have I made significant modifications to one of my own bikes, a souped-up Vespa Ciao moped that zips along at speeds beyond what the chassis should be run at. It's fun to ride, but frankly, it's more than a bit scary.

This new project is even scarier. I'm still not sure where the idea came from, but it's been germinating for a while.

I have the frame of an '80 Honda Express II "noped" and the engine from a '08 PRC GY6. The original bike was a 50cc; the engine is a 180cc.

The chassis was donated to the club garage for parts and the engine was abandoned there. Both components carried almost no value as they sat: the weathered frame was seriously damaged in a crash and the engine was rendered inert by a broken connecting rod. Both elements are missing components or have a significant number of damaged parts. So far, I've dismantled, cleaned and serviced what I have on hand and have been prowling about for economical parts. I do expect that I will need to put some real money into making it all work together; broken cranks won't fix themselves and there is no reason to use old cables, hoses and tires.

I'm currently trying to decide which direction to go with this build. Part of me wants to put it all together with fresh paint and NOS parts, while integrating the powertrain in such a way that it looks like it came from the factory that way. The other part of me wants to take an approach similar to the Bixby Death Dealer II and bolt bits together into a scary-yet-somehow-awesome bastard bike.

Pictures of the frame follow:

theemptythrone · Post by **theemptythrone** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:09 am

should be interesting, keep us updated.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:34 pm

AwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesome
AwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesome
AwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesomeAwesome!

Wish I had the skills to do weird shit like this. Good luck with it.

[EDIT] Changed to remove the very long line. Sorry about that[/EDIT]

ohiotj · Post by **ohiotj** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:48 pm

Sounds like its time for a drag (or drag-styled) bike

Do a stretch, lower it as much as practical, strip off anything you don't need, and go have fun...

I'm stuffing a 250 Elite engine into a 1989 Elite E right now.

Roofaloof · Post by **Roofaloof** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:40 pm

Super cool! I vote for chopped together bastard bike.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:29 am

So, the frame's been broken down into its component parts. Rubber bits were softened with boiling water to remove them and have been treated with Gummi Pflege to improve their plasticity. Non-mangled, rusty hardware has been soaked in Evaporust. The wiring is incomplete; according to the wiring diagram, I have only the front half of the harness.

I picked up a decent replacement fork for $5 plus shipping off of eBay. I also nabbed a decent Express II seat for the same price. Good start, but there's a long way to go. I think a trip to my local cycle shop's backyard pile may be in order. Following that, I think a trip to Bob's in Phoenix may be beneficial as well.

If I make a rat out of this, I'll leave the paint as-is, scars and all. I do plan to make it fully road-legal if not safe. Here are some of the aspects I'm currently considering:

- Thinking of coming up with alternate blinkers, as the left front mount is torn off and the rears are non-existent.

- The taillight will be another problem and will require custom mounting; the area behind and below the seat is the gas tank (unless I get creative).

- It'll probably have a capacitor pack in lieu of a battery. The original electricals were 6V and the battery wasn't much bigger than two packs of cards. That also defines one aspect of the build: it'll be kick-start only.

- A stretch will be in order; the weight of the frame and original wheelbase will make this thing squirrely and uncontrollable unless I can get the front tire on the ground sometimes. The engine mount would be a good place to start, as the GY6 mounts and the Express mounts are incongruous as they sit.

- The GY6 is a long case model. It'll take a larger rear tire, which will definitely help the chopper look. The problem is that I'll need to find a right side swingarm for it and I'll need to add a second shock mount to the Express frame.

Anyway, that's my initial list of things to resolve. There will be plenty more to resolve as I go.

I leave it with a few more pictures from the disassembly.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:43 am

ohiotj wrote:Sounds like its time for a drag (or drag-styled) bike Do a stretch, lower it as much as practical, strip off anything you don't need, and go have fun...

I'm stuffing a 250 Elite engine into a 1989 Elite E right now.

Sir, you are a madman and I salute you. I have an SB50P and I'm very familiar with the frame. That one's gonna need some heavy fabrication and the liquid cooling is a bonus headache. Is it the vertical CH/CN250 or the horizontal model?

ohiotj · Post by **ohiotj** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:10 pm

az_slynch wrote: Sir, you are a madman and I salute you. I have an SB50P and I'm very familiar with the frame. That one's gonna need some heavy fabrication and the liquid cooling is a bonus headache. Is it the vertical CH/CN250 or the horizontal model?

Its the vertical engine. The cylinder head tucks up where the gas tank used to be. So as not to hijack your thread, here's a link to the build thread over on another forum: Elite E build

Does the long case GY6 use two shock mounts? Its been a while since I had a bike with that version of the engine.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:38 pm

az_slynch, after viewing ohiotj's thread on the Grassroots Motorsports forum, I am doing "The Medieval Torture Cheer," you know, "Stretch! Stretch! Stretch!"

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:50 pm

ohiotj wrote:...here's a link to the build thread over on another forum: Elite E build

I'm loving it! The more Frankenscoot it gets, the more I love it. Man I wish you'd run that in the 2014 Cannonball. There was a Frankenscooter in the first cannonball that had an ET4 motor in a Lambretta body. Mike Heytens welded it up with angled pieces from shelving. He said he hit it a couple times with a mallet after he welded it up to get it straight and it tracked true. I love mad Frankenscoots.

My hat is off to you folks who have the skills to do that work!

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:10 pm

Sorry to hijack this thread - but this has inspired me. Any idea of how to get an air cooled 150 or 250cc engine into a 80cc Elite. the gy6 engines won't fit since the Elite engine is a vertical design...

thinking.....

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:04 pm

RoaringTodd wrote:Sorry to hijack this thread - but this has inspired me. Any idea of how to get an air cooled 150 or 250cc engine into a 80cc Elite. the gy6 engines won't fit since the Elite engine is a vertical design...

thinking.....

Todd, off the cuff, you could remove the rear cowls, disconnect the taillight and remove it and the inner rear fender/license mount. The body panels could be re-fitted but probably need bracing. Taillight would need to be carved up to remove the blinkers and then those could be attached to the bodywork. Finally, I'd mount an LED taillight on the tail panel of the seat. You'd have a nice big slot in the rear for the tire to poke out of with the dummy light and louver panel removed.

I've considered this a bit; there's a gaggle of CH80s with blown engines at the garage and I almost considered putting this motor in one. I think a short-case GY6 would be a better fit for the CH80 frame.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:20 pm

jrsjr wrote:az_slynch, after viewing ohiotj's thread on the Grassroots Motorsports forum, I am doing "The Medieval Torture Cheer," you know, "Stretch! Stretch! Stretch!" I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

Currently, I'm thinking "longer than a Buddy, but shorter than a Helix".

At least the original engine mounts are similar to the GY6. The end of the chassis tube seems like a good place to locate a rubber bumper for the motor mount. My biggest concerns at this point are shock length and shock acting angles. No rigid rear end, thanks. My Ciao's rigid rear has been educational in how light unsprung bikes handle over bumps at 40+ mph.

The Express II had an open rack at the rear. It kinda looked like a scaffolding to hold the taillight cluster out over the rear wheel. I wonder if an original Express rack could be fitted; it housed a fuel tank which could be handy for the thirstier motor. Some carrying capacity would be nice.

At least no punters have said "make a skelly!", it's already a spindly little stick as-is!

ohiotj · Post by **ohiotj** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:48 pm

I've got a couple of Elite 250 shocks laying around if you need me to take any measurements for you. Heck, once I'm sure I don't need them, I could probably send them your way for the cost of shipping.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:25 pm

ohiotj wrote:So as not to hijack your thread, here's a link to the build thread over on another forum: Elite E build

Well, that link ruined my afternoon!