170i downshifting rough?

[SFBDY170i]

I recently bought a buddy 170i. It has 2500 miles on it. Took it home, changed the oils. Washed it. Started riding it. Its a super fun little scooter! However, when I am coming to a stop, under about 10 mph the last gear the bike is in seems to hang on a bit too long before letting go into neutral and slows down a bit harder than I would guess a bike manufacturer would design the bike to. Not a major jolt or anything, just feels weird. Ive never had an automatic scooter or motorcycle. Is this just how they are or do I have an issue on my hands? If so what is the issue?

Thanks for taking the time to read. This forum is awesome.Im enjoying looking through everyones posts.-Matt

[tenders]

Hard to tell without a video. What year is the scoot?

You might be experiencing "engine braking." It is typical for the automatic clutch to stay engaged until the engine RPM and CVT position get quite low.

It is also possible that the belt is old and not interacting as designed with the rest of the transmission. My 2009 Vespa 150 with similarly low mileage as your 170i acted oddly with its 10-year-old belt once the transmission got pretty warm (20-30 minutes at speed) - a new belt cleared it up. My 2009 Buddy 50 had no issues, but I replaced the original belt a few months ago with no perceptible difference.

[SFBDY170i]

Oh wow. Okay, Ill try the belt thing for sure. Thanks for that!

My buddy is a 2018. like I said 2500 miles and I suspect that it was sitting around outside for a good chunk of its life with the first owner. Second owner garaged it and only put 50 miles on it in 1 year it says when I compared the registration to the odometer.


If it the issue persists after the belt change Ill try to get it on video and post a link.


Take care,
Matt

[DeeDee]

Unless your in a hot as hell swamp, there is no way that needs a new belt. The OEM Bando belt in your scooter is very high quality. They are known to last 10 years +, 10,000 miles. In fact, all the components in the CVT are high quality. Any chance someone was in there messing around? Maybe installed Dr. Pulley Sliders backward....?

[SFBDY170i]

Unfortunately I dont know anything about the first owner and what was done to the bike. BUT, theres a couple aftermarket cosmetic things on the bike that makes me think that owner was interested in upgrades to some extent. So maybe? Thats all I have to go on. I will take a look at those sliders. When tenders says "engine breaking" thats exactly what it feels like.That is, the engine itself braking without throttle or actual brakes or anything I have immediate control over being in the mix to slow it down. And its a little more dramatic of a slow down than seems "smooth'' to me.

Thanks,
Matt

[scootERIK]

If I remember right other people have asked about this before and most of the time after a few hundred miles they get used to it or they start to ride a little differently so it isn't an issue.

If you want to work on it open up the CVT and clean out the variator and inspect the rollers to make sure they don't have flat spots.

[SFBDY170i]

Ok, Ill get in there tomorrow and take a look. Thanks!

[SFBDY170i]

PROBLEM SOLVED! I opened up the CVT and found some flat spots on the stock rollers. Bought some OEM rollers and put um in. It now rides exactly how I imagined it should. Thanks for everyones suggestions!

[Neil82]

That's great news. Pretty easy solution. Gotta love it!

[DeeDee]

That's something, having flat spots at 2,500 miles. Glad you figured it out.

[seamus26]

Interesting. My wife's 170i has always felt that way. We bought it brand new. I just assumed the clutch released later than my other bikes.

I've never opened up the cover on that one. No need yet; it's such a great running bike. The one place it bugs me is speed bumps. Slowing down for them it feels like there's no "coast" until you drop down slower than I want.

[Therealslimshaggy]

I have opened the cover on to many scoots to remember. In fact I ran all the 2t scoots with the cover off when living in Taiwan to reduce heat and belt snapping. If you own a 2t scoot in Taiwan it’s almost a requirement to run cover off. Only the bigger 4t scoots have adequate cooling and airflow going inside the cvt cover to not snap belts.

That being said almost all downshifting etc issues can be solved 3 ways. #1 did the previous owner install a racing clutch? These engage and disengage and speeds that causes jerking They don’t disengage smoothly. #2. Do you run rollers? That’s something 99% will have to say yes to. Rollers suck. Tried them all. Ncy. Prima. Malossi. Oem pgo. They all flat spot too fast. Usually after 1000-2000 miles. The only rollers I haven’t seen flat spot are the massive ones on the Yamaha smax. Those are like triple the size of any 125-170 genuine scooter despite the smax being only 155cc. That smax has a cvt built for a 500cc engine. So the way to go is dr pulley sliders in oem weight which can’t get flat spotted. #3 belt. This is a rare one. Sometimes belt causes bad shifting but the underlying problem is always flat spotted rollers or an upgraded cvt/clutch the new owner doesn’t know about

[Neil82]

I know I'm posting to an older thread which hasn't been active for a bit. My apologies for hijacking the thread!

My Buddy 170i now has about 575 miles. Purchased new and no mods. 1st service completed including 'transmission cleaned and deglazed' per service invoice. Scooter runs great but I'm still getting used to how the clutch operates. As described by OP in the first post, when letting off throttle it feels like clutch stays engaged down to very low speed. When accelerating after a full stop, sometimes it gives bit of a jerk when clutch is engaging. I try to make sure that I'm not going 'too easy' on throttle when accelerating. I have to go pretty much WOT off the line to avoid jerking sensation.

For those of you riding this model or familiar with this topic- is this normal? Is there a remedy or better way to operate the scooter?

When decelerating for a stop should I:
1. Let off throttle entirely and allow engine braking?
2. Gently roll off throttle all the way down to point where clutch releases?

When accelerating, do I pin it WOT every time?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and ideas

[scootERIK]

When decelerating for a stop should I:
1. Let off throttle entirely and allow engine braking?
2. Gently roll off throttle all the way down to point where clutch releases?

When accelerating, do I pin it WOT every time?

If the transmission is working properly you should be able to ride the scooter pretty much any way you want and it won't jerk during acceleration. When accelerating you should be able to go WOT or slowly roll on the gas and it shouldn't jerk. At least in my experience.

That being said if you slow down super fast or really really slowly sometimes the rollers don't all the way back down so there can be a bog/jerk on acceleration as they reset. If this is the issue a couple of blips of the throttle as you slow down will usually help, or even a couple blips once you stop.

How often is sometimes?

Are you still under warranty?

[Neil82]

How often is sometimes?

Are you still under warranty?

I'm guessing about half the time I accelerate from a stop, excuding WOT take offs, there feels like some weirdness or jerking. It's only when taking off from dead stop. Haven't noticed anything when giving it throttle from a low or moderate speed.

Yes- still under warranty. Purchased in Nov 2022.

I'll try doing the blips to see if that helps. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Neil82]

BTW, I've only recently tried WOT off the line while experimenting to see how clutch responds. This is not my preferred method of accelerating and I've been careful about limiting excessive throttle during break in period.

[Neil82]

Ok, I think I've got this somewhat sorted. It's just me getting feel for the clutch. I realized that I thought clutch felt weird, when accelerating, after a recent ride with my daughter. That's an extra 60 lbs on board.

I took two rides today. First was solo. Take offs were smooth. Went back out riding two up with my girl and there was a noticeable difference. I'm trying to be extra careful with her on back. I think it's a combination of extra weight and going too easy on the throttle from dead stop. The clutch catches a bit once it's fully engaged. I'm guessing I'll get the feel of it.

As far as clutch not releasing until a low speed when stopping... that'll take some getting used to. My Buddy 50 seems to coast when letting off the throttle at almost any speed.