Safety concern re:center stand

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:17 pm

So I had to lay my buddy down last night , but it had almost happened 3 previous times, all for the same reason. When I make left hand turns, part of my center stand has hit the pavement. The first 3 times, I heard it scrape, it startled me and I straightened up and was ok.
Last night, it hit hard enough that the back wheel actually left the ground and down I went. Has any else heard of this problem? It seems like a design flaw to me. I was only going 20-25mph and wasn't leaning excessively. I learned right off that I lean as far to the right as I want, but definately must be careful leaning left.
I'm okay. I've got a bit of road rash and I sprained my ankle pretty bad. But... life goes on.

Howard

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:21 pm

Yes it's definitely documented that the center stand can be scraped on left turns. I've only done it once and it seemed like I had to lean pretty far but I'm a new rider so leaning is still coming to me. Other experienced riders (ericalm?) have scraped it on the first time out.

I don't know that there's much you can do about it but remove the center stand.

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:39 pm

Well, I hope you and your scoot are ok and up and running in a few days!

But, are you sure it's not your kickstand that you're leaving down?? I would think you'd probably have to be leaned waaaay to close to the ground to scrape the center stand, and to lean that far without just wiping out, you'd have to be taking turns too fast. I believe there is a way to take the side stand off, but not the center stand.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:59 pm

jmazza,
thanks for the confirmation. I searched the threads here but didn't see it referred to. The first time it happened was, in fact, the first day I got the scoot. I'm sure I wasn't leaning waaay over on my first day.
I;m going to see about having that stand removed, otherwise, I see this happening again.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:14 pm

Remember the BIG down side to removing it is when you use the side stand and the bike is still warming up, the back wheel spins. The bike will fall if you are not sitting on it.

You really do not need to lean into turns so much that it scrapes. Yes it is impressive and certainly fun, but unnecessary. Glad you were not hurt too bad!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:22 pm

Mine is grinded down on the left but I have never had loss of control when riding. I've heard of this before, but some have said to double check sometimes to see if your center stand is fully folded back up. There are people who say the spring became weak and was actually half way down the entire time they were riding.

sargelee71 · Post by **sargelee71** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:25 pm

jfost, I was just going to say almost the very thing you did. I notice sometimes that my stand doesn't go all the way up---and then I don't hear the *bing* sound that it makes when it snaps into the up position. So now, I just make sure.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:27 pm

I always just give it a kick up after I sit on the bike, just to lift it into place, so far it's been working fine, but after a year or two of constant use, I might as wheel replace the spring, cant cost more than a few dollars.

Hanz · Post by **Hanz** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:53 pm

peabody99 wrote:Remember the BIG down side to removing it is when you use the side stand and the bike is still warming up, the back wheel spins. The bike will fall if you are not sitting on it.

I was foolish enough to leave mine on the kick stand for just 15 seconds while I was going to grab my helmet 10 feet away. As I was putting the helmet on my buddy went down. Thankfully there was no damage.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:55 pm

sargelee71 wrote:jfost, I was just going to say almost the very thing you did. I notice sometimes that my stand doesn't go all the way up---and then I don't hear the *bing* sound that it makes when it snaps into the up position. So now, I just make sure.

If that's happening, you may need to grease the mechanism. It sounds like it may be binding and need lubrication, rather than being the fault of a weak return spring.

-John

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:59 pm

Well, it is sort of a design flaw but not with the Buddy. Center stands usually cut down your cornering clearance, it's just a fact of life. Most riders are willing to make that compromise because center stands offer an increased level of utility and stability while parked.

The Buddy's spring can also be a bit weak, so do make sure that the stand is all the way up before riding. Every time I ride I'll rock the bike off the stand and then look back and use my left foot to test the stand. However, even with the stand fully retracted, I've scraped on the left a number of times. I've never scraped it during "normal" cornering sequences, like riding quickly through a series of turns. But, at a traffic light, taking a really hard left, I scrape pretty regularly at certain intersections. Usually the pavement is rough and uneven and that contributes to the stand scraping. If you're taking a turn hard and your suspension compresses from bumps, your chances of scraping the center stand increase dramatically. Likewise, if the pavement is uneven and higher on your left, like if you're riding in a rut, your chances of scraping increase as well.

And you don't need to be leaned "waaaay over".

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:03 pm

I talked to a guy at my dealer once when getting my bike serviced, we just sat there outside and talked about scooter stuff the whole hour, he took off a center stand on his previous bike just so he can use the side stand 100% of the time. He said he hit a speed bump real hard and it damaged his transmission cover and engine badly since there wasn't anything there to protect it. The center stand acts as a shield too, anything that hits it is ok, but without it, anything that hits your engine may not be ok.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:57 pm

jrsjr wrote:
sargelee71 wrote:jfost, I was just going to say almost the very thing you did. I notice sometimes that my stand doesn't go all the way up---and then I don't hear the *bing* sound that it makes when it snaps into the up position. So now, I just make sure.
If that's happening, you may need to grease the mechanism. It sounds like it may be binding and need lubrication, rather than being the fault of a weak return spring.

I went down on my Vespa yesterday, wife on the back, for what was probably this very reason. Center stand had been getting sticky and this time it didn't come up all the way. Making a RIGHT turn, the bottom of the stand planted in the pavement and sent me swinging right. I overcorrected to the left and down we went.

This was at less than 10mph and we're both pretty banged up and sore. Thankfully, nothing broken; we were wearing gear. But it just goes to show that even a slow crash can cause some pain and injury. Falling on pavement hurts. Falling on pavement under a 300lb. scoot hurts more. Falling on pavement under a 300lb. scoot while moving forward, even slowly? Ouch.

As far as scraping the center stand on the Buddy goes...
I scraped stand my first time out on a Buddy, but haven't since. There's a simple solution: Don't lean it so hard. There's no need. If you lean it far enough to scrape the stand, you've exceeded the Buddy's limitations. If you absolutely need to lean it that far down, then you're taking turns too fast.

This is not a design flaw with the Buddy—you can hit stand on any scooter out there. It's just a little easier with the Buddy because it has a low center of gravity and tilts easier than anything else on the road.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:59 pm

I guess this is something to add to the "Pre-ride" check.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:02 pm

jfrost2 wrote:I guess this is something to add to the "Pre-ride" check.

Well, you should be able to tell if it snaps up correctly when you take it off the stand. I had noticed some time ago that I wasn't hearing that satisfying thud of the stand hitting the bottom. So, yeah, one more maintenance thing.

I ignored it and look what happened to me.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Tue May 27, 2008 11:21 pm

I hope you guys are allright and heal up quick!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:11 am

Riding over a parking lot wheel stop will reposition the center stand a little bit higher. Don't ask how I know this. I did still scrape it two up at the Sleep Away Camp rally. We were leaned over pretty far. Mrs. Raton sure knows how to ride pillion!

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:13 am

I consider the scrapes on my center stand and my Prima as badges of honor.
I have never lost control due to scraping though? Scraping the prima was a challenge

louie · Post by **louie** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:04 pm

i have made it a habit to check that my center stand is all the way up by always giving it a kick with my foot after taking off the center stand.

i was taking it off the center stand one day in my backyard and the 1"x1" nub on the bottom got caught on a brick and pulled it off. it just occurred to me that if i were to scrape that on the ground it could cause the scooter to dig into the pavement. i need to get it welded back on.

i have scraped mine several times.

i've even scraped on the right side when my tire pressure was low. it even skipped out from under me a little and took about 20 miles to get over the adreneline rush that came from it.

it was suggested to me to take my body over into the turn a little more. that way you get more turn without the scooter doing all the leaning. i've only scraped the left side once since then and i'll not be scraping the right again hopefully.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:16 pm

check the main bolt that attatches the center stand on the left side... that has loosened several times on my buddy, and tends to keep the center stand from coming all the way up...