Dear pre-'08 Black Buddy rider in Richmond...

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:55 pm

I saw you this morning with your black helmet, white dress shirt, and flapping tie, headed eastbound at 11:40 on Cary St out of the VCU campus...

...more specifically, you were splitting lanes eastbound on Cary at the Belvedere light. Through heavy traffic.

Lane-splitting is illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia, and people aren't expecting it, so it annoys them. It annoys me, too.

Hope you've got the little red heart on your driver's license...

[/rant]

sargelee71 · Post by **sargelee71** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:28 pm

twoscoots, what does it mean to split lanes, actually? I just want to know so I don't do it.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:35 pm

sargelee71 wrote:twoscoots, what does it mean to split lanes, actually? I just want to know so I don't do it.

Riding between two lanes of traffic. Could be down the yellow center line on a two lane road or along the white line between two lanes on a four lane or one way road. It is usually done when traffic is slow and is, in effect, a way for a motorcycle or scooter to pass other vehicles. It is illegal in most states (and dangerous as hell).

Somebody from CA can explain why they think it is okay there.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:43 pm

Dooglas wrote:Somebody from CA can explain why they think it is okay there.

That's me! Drivers from other states are often totally freaked out by lane splitting in CA, whereas here it's perfectly normal and part of everyday riding.

Lane splitting is legal in CA to the extent that it's not mentioned at all in state vehicle code. (Don't believe folks saying "it's legal if you only go so fast" and whatnot. That's all baloney.) In general, it's seen as a way to reduce traffic congestion. The practice is very widespread in urban areas. In general, lane splitting is very well-accepted and most riders do it fairly responsibly, only splitting at stop lights or through heavily congested traffic. Drivers are usually very courteous, and often pull over a little to allow more space. For the most part, they're happy there's not one more vehicle in front of them holding things up. It's really not as dangerous or weird as it sounds because drivers here are accustomed to it.

However, I have seen idiots doing things like lane splitting at speed on a highway (:o) and frequently see people weaving through stopped cars, from lane to lane, in traffic. I've also seen a Vespa GTS take the rearview mirror off a BMW. Oops.

I have my own rules for lane splitting: Don't do it in moving traffic. Don't do it at night. Don't do it on curved roads. Don't cut from one lane to another in stopped traffic.

It does require some practice, skill and a little courage (at first). It's a bit like the Death Star run.

badapple · Post by **badapple** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:45 pm

I actually was curious myself why lanesplitting is only legal in California. Anywho, here's what Wikipedia has to say about it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting For the record, I don't split lanes. But, I am passed by lanesplitters quite frequently. It usually happens at a stop light, or in traffic on the freeway. They usually only travel a few miles faster than traffic. Once or twice, a motorcycle has zipped by me like a bat outta hell-o, and that scared the bajeezus outta me, but like I said, it's only happened once or twice. I've lived in Cali for most of my life and am quite used to it, never thought twice about it until I found out it's illegal everywhere else. I have never seen an accident involving someone riding on the line, but I have seen a motorcycle rear end a Lexus at a stop light. He gunned it when the light turned green. The Lexus did not.

AmyNTX · Post by **AmyNTX** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:51 pm

Before I moved to Texas..I worked at a Harley Davidson Dealership in Southern CA. Even though it is "legal" in CA, all of the Harley Safety classes, and the Harley University classes that I took say It's not safe. Other Cars don't see you..and alot of times your in their blind spot.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:54 pm

I wish it was legal in MN.

We do it everywhere in Europe (never stopped to think if it was legal, but never got a ticket). It is specially handy in stop and go traffic and to get to the front of the line at stop lights. When the light goes green, you are ussually at the other end of the intersection by the time the cars start moving anyway.

It is not legal in MN so I don't do it, but man . . . I am often tempted ![/i]

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:59 pm

When people don't expect someone to be zipping along between the cars, they're liable to do something like open their car door, or stick an arm out to dump a drink. If my arm got mangled by some doofus on a scooter, I would not be pleased - I need two functional arms to do my job.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:08 pm

Well, now everyone is talking, the culprit defiantly wont show up.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:23 pm

I thought about an ambush, but I decided that wouldn't be nice. There's a chance he's from out of state - as jsjsjrjsrrrrrrr noted, there are a lot of scooters around the Medical College of VA campus, which imports quite a few folks from elsewhere and is not too far away, so he might be from someplace that allows it. Or he might just be a jerk.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:41 pm

A lot of it has to do with expectations. In Europe and Asia, there are way more two-wheelers and drivers are a bit more aware and used to it, plus the scooterists are better riders. If you try it anywhere else, you'll get squashed like a bug sooner or later, people just aren't looking for you.

There was a test recently in Germany where they just removed all markings, signs, and lights from the streets and leveled the sidewalks and told people to go nuts, and surprisingly, things went more smoothly, people were more polite, traffic moved through quickly, etc, because everyone was paying attention and watching what they were doing. In America, everyone drives around on autopilot in giant cars and expects everything to get out of their way.

Bb.

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:14 pm

texans notoriously do not use their blinkers and are very aggressive about one-upping into the neighboring lane during traffic. I'd be VERY afraid one of those cages would change lanes directly into me if I were to attempt lane splitting...in stop and go traffic OR at stop signs.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:43 pm

I have been splitting the right hand side of the lane, ONLY when traffic is completely stopped, I am only a few cars from the front, there is only room for a scooter and NOT room for the cars to try to pull out and up to turn right, and I do this only to turn right, not to get to the front of the straight ahead line… I think that made sense…

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:52 pm

ericalm wrote:I have my own rules for lane splitting: Don't do it in moving traffic. Don't do it at night. Don't do it on curved roads. Don't cut from one lane to another in stopped traffic.

It does require some practice, skill and a little courage (at first). It's a bit like the Death Star run.

+1 I have the same rules. But I will add one, never do it on left side of a car (unless there's another lane going the same direction). If you are not comfortable doing it, don't.

On my route to and from work it is an absolute necessity. When there are 20 cars deep at a traffic light, yeah I do it. There's one particular curb, on my way to work, there is a traffic light less than 100ft after the curb. I always split the lane there because I'm concerned that someone will barrel around that curb and not see the cars stopped. But it won't be a car they hit.

bjj4287 · Post by **bjj4287** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:02 pm

crazy video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cQvcZlo2yo

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:37 pm

It's still legal in some states because they are too lazy to change the law about lane splitting. Some states allowed it in the past because of the arguement that an air cooled engine stuck in bumper to bumper traffic will overheat (obviously in hot climates). Not really a problem anymore, but since it's not a "hot topic" for laws it stays around in some states.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:56 pm

I've heard from a number of sources that the original justification for allowing lane splitting in CA was health-related. Specifically, the air pollution was so bad in certain areas that it was thought to be a health hazard to riders stuck in bad traffic. I always sort of figured this was urban legend; perhaps some of our CA members can confirm or bust the myth?

Lane splitting is not legal in Colorado but you do see it now and then. I'll definitely take advantage of my bikes' narrow profile to jump to the head of some lines, but it's always a judgment call. As far as trying it in moving traffic? Nope, not here. People just aren't ready for it.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 am

bjj4287 wrote:crazy video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cQvcZlo2yo

Well, that's in traffic on the freeway (10 west, FWIW). It's also been sped up. See the original:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8Oav3WBKM

It's typically more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MQVtEDd5Bo
(Santa Monica Blvd. from Beverly Hills to West Hollywood, a stretch where I frequently split lanes.)

runtotorun121 · Post by **runtotorun121** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:07 am

gt1000 wrote:I've heard from a number of sources that the original justification for allowing lane splitting in CA was health-related. Specifically, the air pollution was so bad in certain areas that it was thought to be a health hazard to riders stuck in bad traffic. I always sort of figured this was urban legend; perhaps some of our CA members can confirm or bust the myth?

Okay, I am interested in hearing whether or not anyone knows about this. The lane-splitters I have seen here in KC are sports' bikes who weave (actually more like DART) in and out of moving cars and whip in front of other vehicles. To me, they look like they are causing a dangerous situation for themselves and for the others on the road. As someone mentioned, all it takes is an open door, arm or other things out a window, or, even worse, someone else who darts while the bike is darting. *shudder*

So <ducking in anticipation of this not going over too good>, I haven't quite figure out yet why any two-wheelers "deserve" or have the right to not wait in line behind traffic like everyone else. . .? Is it just another got-to-have-it-NOW behavior? Does no one do deferred gratification anymore? Why are people in such a hurry to hurry? Sorry if that offends anyone, but I just don't get how two-wheelers lane-splitting is any different than those morons who speed by in a merge lane to "get ahead" and then have to jack up traffic by forcing others to stop and let them in (or forcing their way into a lane). I HATE that. People who commute KNOW when lanes end so WHY do they feel more entitled than anyone else to not wait their turn???

Oooops. A little venting. . .

Edited to remember to say - but if there is a breathing/death thing from having to wait in traffic, then it might make more sense. Except. . .what about people who don't have A/C and have to keep their windows down? Then they should get to dart ahead too?

Artisan · Post by **Artisan** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:35 am

I was almost imvolved in a pileup on our interstate because of a lane splitter. He came up from behind me at speed,went around and started down the middle. He did not seem to realise that at the same time a car several cars ahead of me in the left lane was starting to merge over to an opening in the right lane. The car was in the right ,using his signal and not merging suddenly. We all were doing a little over the speed limit but still almost bumper to bumper. This idiot could not wait though and tried to blast through when suddenly the car was in his way. Being awake that day and seeing beforehand how this might work out I stood on my horn and swerved off to the side of the interstate just in time. Luckily other drivers either heard my horn or saw that motorcyclist because there was a lot of drivers that ditched. Somehow that @#$%#@ motorcyclist missed getting hit and after seeing what he did blasted off down the road

!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:36 am

That kind of behavior is just dangerous, period. Lane splitting in any state where it's not legal—and drivers don't know to expect it—is a bad idea.

In places where's it's not legal, riders don't "deserve the right" to do it any more than anyone deserves the right to break any traffic law. Which is to say that no one has the right and people who do it anyways are scofflaws.

As I mentioned earlier, CA commuters actually appreciate lane splitting because it cuts down on all of our commutes. There's some interesting information in the Wikipedia entry which suggests the lane splitting may actually improve safety. I would think that's only in places where it's legal. I'm also pretty sure that it was written by sportsbike dealers.

It does mention the Hurt Report, which was very objective, based on exhaustive research, and remains the best source for crash information we have (despite being almost 30 years old).

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:46 am

I would like to point out that it would not be possible for anyone to lane-split in Houston, because big, lifted trucks (or dumb, lifted SUVs) are a necessity here

they take up entire lanes, like the black truck in the video above when he almost gets stuck between it and the black car.

StL_Stadtroller · Post by **StL_Stadtroller** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:11 pm

If I wanted to sit in a giant queue of cars like a chump, I'd drive my frackin' car.

Lane-splitting can be done with courtesy, and some measure of "safety". I've practiced in when practical, all across the country, on everything from a BMW bagger, scooters, and my Enfield Bullet (in DC rush-hour traffic).
Have NEVER had an incident, and like Eric stated, tend to find people making room for me and returning envious smiles.

I always laugh when people bring up the "opening the car door" arguement.
really people? how often do YOU randomly open your car door on the interstate?

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:26 pm

MikieTaps wrote:I have been splitting the right hand side of the lane, ONLY when traffic is completely stopped, I am only a few cars from the front, there is only room for a scooter and NOT room for the cars to try to pull out and up to turn right, and I do this only to turn right,

Thats what i do as well. (but usually not at stop signs)

once i had my little sis passenger and she didn't notice what i was doing till she was 6" away from the vehicle getting passed. scared her a bit i guess.

Ken82 · Post by **Ken82** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:15 pm

twoscoots wrote:When people don't expect someone to be zipping along between the cars, they're liable to do something like open their car door, or stick an arm out to dump a drink. If my arm got mangled by some doofus on a scooter, I would not be pleased - I need two functional arms to do my job.

first off i love RVA... AVAIL!

anyways...i wouldn't be pleased if i was sitting anywhere and some dude dumps his drink out of his car...mucking up the road we all use..just saying.t.here's proper waste destinations for such a thing...

and i am sure lane splitting is illegal in louisiana..but i do it..only at stopped lights and with caution..

however i get the mentality from bike messaging so..i don't know how to stop..i just can't stand sitting there when i could easily just be in front..where im going to start faster than anyone for the most part..and be out of everyone's hair...

that's just me though..im not trying to be confrontational at all..but i would think that drivers should be prepared to handle most situations.

it's a race for most people on the road anyways..can't get mad because someone has the leg up...