4 stroke vs 2 stroke - is 4 stroke that much more quiet ?

FrostyTheBeerMan · Post by **FrostyTheBeerMan** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:48 pm

Hello everyone !

My first post here.

Thanks to Dave over at justgottascoot.com for steering me over to this website forum ! ( pardon the pun )

I am looking at buying my first scooter ( 49 cc ) and was at my local scooter vendor yesterday, and saw the Yamaha C3 ( 2008 model )

This scooter is a 4 stroke model, as many of you are aware of. Now, I see many kids driving by my home on a daily basis, and all the scooters I see th kids using are the 2-stroke models. The noise coming from them is pretty loud, and so I have to wonder......

are the 4 stroke models THAT much more quiet than the 2 stroke models ?

The really sad part to all of this, is that it seems all of the scooters I saw yesterday that were 2-seaters were 2-stroke models.

I have 2 kids, and buying the Yamaha C3 would be a mistake, as it's only a 1 seater.

I checked YouTube for any good video comparing the sounds of a 4 stroke scooter vs a 2 stroke scooter and didn't find anything of value.

I'd really appreciate your time, if you can jump in on this topic, and offer me some help.

Thanks much in advance everyone

berryjames74 · Post by **berryjames74** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:59 pm

I just upgraded from a C3 to a Buddy 150. The C3 is really quiet.....much more so than a two stroke. The only real drawback ot the C3 (or any 4stroke) is that you can't really add much in terms of performance upgrades.

I would strongly recommend looking at a Buddy 125/150 or a used scoot with a larger motor.....you will find that you will outgrow it quickly. if the C3 had a larger motor I would have kept it.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:03 pm

Not to be rude or nosy, but how heavy are you in pounds? It sounds like you will be carrying a passenger sometimes, and with your current weight plus the extra from a second person, a 50cc may not be able to hold itself in traffic.

I think your best bet it to get a 125cc or 150cc bike, it'll keep up with traffic, and it'll show those kids on their 50cc's who's the new king of the town. But really, I think weight is more of the issue. The bike being able to do 30mph max restricted and having a second person on wont go too fast at all. Even de-restricting, the max speed working the engine at max is 45mph for most people.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:12 pm

Yes, 4 strokes are generally quieter than 2 strokes. The 2 strokes also have a higher pitched sound that seems to carry further. The small 50cc two strokes are also almost always ridden with throttle wide open which makes them sound loud. The 50cc 4 strokes are down on power a bit compared to the 2 strokes though. As others have said, I don't think either one is a good choice for riding 2 up.

FrostyTheBeerMan · Post by **FrostyTheBeerMan** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:12 pm

Thanks for the info guys.
Interesting stuff.

Well, I'm 40 years old, and I'm about 236 lbs.

Maybe it's a good thing I posted,, perhaps I'd be much better off going with a larger model, although this would mean taking a motorcycle test.

I assume to drive a 125 cc scooter, you take the same course you would to drive a motorcycle.

My son is 10, and is skinny, but still maybe 70 lbs.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:14 pm

The major advantage of the C3 is that it is fuel injected.

The major drawback, in my opinion, is that incredibly uncomfortable seat. Feels like you are straddling an ice chest cooler.

FrostyTheBeerMan · Post by **FrostyTheBeerMan** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:18 pm

I'm glad I didn't jump yesterday, and buy the C3. I have to agree with you about it being like a ice chest cooler.

In the 125 cc scooters, I'm going to assume there are a lot more 4 stroke models, which may be right up my alley.

I guess in reality, I should just take the motorcycle course, and buy a 125 cc scooter.

I'm up in Canada, and prices for the C3 here ( 2008 model ) was $2695 I think it was.

Do prices down there in the States different greatly when you jump to a 125 cc model ?

How much jump would you see from a 49cc to a 125 cc on average ?
anyone have a ball park guess ?

7eregrine wrote:The major advantage of the C3 is that it is fuel injected.

The major drawback, in my opinion, is that incredibly uncomfortable seat. Feels like you are straddling an ice chest cooler.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:19 pm

FrostyTheBeerMan wrote:Thanks for the info guys.
Interesting stuff.

Well, I'm 40 years old, and I'm about 236 lbs.

Maybe it's a good thing I posted,, perhaps I'd be much better off going with a larger model, although this would mean taking a motorcycle test.

I assume to drive a 125 cc scooter, you take the same course you would to drive a motorcycle.

My son is 10, and is skinny, but still maybe 70 lbs.

Frosty, I think the Buddy 125/150 could handle that combination okay. The Buddy seat is a little small for 2 up riding but would probably work okay for you and your son. I'd suggest you go to a dealer and sit on one to see if it fits you and the kind of 2 up riding you want to do.

Here is far more important advice - don't try to avoid taking the MSF course and getting a regular motorcycle endorsement. You will learn alot in the process and be a much safer rider. Riding a 50 doesn't make any of the safety issues go away anyway.

Have you seen info about the new 125 Zuma that Yamaha will introduce later this summer? That also might be a scoot for you to consider.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:23 pm

FrostyTheBeerMan wrote: Do prices down there in the States different greatly when you jump to a 125 cc model ?

How much jump would you see from a 49cc to a 125 cc on average ?
anyone have a ball park guess ?

$700

50cc $1999
125cc $2699

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:25 pm

FrostyTheBeerMan wrote:Thanks for the info guys.
Interesting stuff.

Well, I'm 40 years old, and I'm about 236 lbs.

Maybe it's a good thing I posted,, perhaps I'd be much better off going with a larger model, although this would mean taking a motorcycle test.

I assume to drive a 125 cc scooter, you take the same course you would to drive a motorcycle.

My son is 10, and is skinny, but still maybe 70 lbs.

300 pounds on a 50cc motor isnt going to work, but will work just fine on a 125/150cc.

bfreed · Post by **bfreed** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:42 pm

The motorcycle license process was more of a mental barrier for me than an actual one. Not sure of the Canadian rules, but here you can get a permit with a written test that's really easy (assuming you actually read the motorcycle handbook).
And yes, the riding test is the same as for motorcycles. With one important difference - the figure-8, that's given several people I know fits on cycles, is incredibly easy on a Buddy. After a couple days of practice at the MSF course here, I can almost (not quite) squeeze a third loop into the box provided.

And prices vary by region, let alone by country - lots of posts here about that. For me, the base price (before tax and tags) for a Buddy was $2800. I haven't shopped for the C3 to know what its price is locally. But it doesn't seem like the price gap will be all that high, considering the extra power you'll get.

If your laws are similar to Pennsylvania's, you can ride on a permit for a year. The restrictions are 1. have to wear a helmet (I would anyway), 2. can't ride after dark, and 3. can't have a passenger (not a bad idea to ride solo for a while first anyway - adding a passenger really changes the dynamics)

FrostyTheBeerMan · Post by **FrostyTheBeerMan** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:51 pm

Hi Dooglas,

Thanks for the info, it's all starting to make sense to me now.

Going from 125 mpg to 88 mpg doesn't really bother me, ( going from a 49cc to a 125 cc ) sure it's a lot lower, but I guess that estimated and maybe if I'm not a fast fast driver then maybe that estimate would go up.

I see the new Zuma 125 ( 2009 model ) here:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx

However in Canada, as I expected, there's not even a mention of it - yet -
and it may only appear next spring, but it's not a big deal. If I need to take a course this gives me time to do that.

Here are the models in Canada for 2009 thus far:
http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/index.php?group=M

That new Zuma 125 ( 2009 model ) is sweet,.... it's a 4-stroke... wow ! now that's exactly what I want. Enough power for 2 people I'm sure.

Is a 125 cc scooter allowed by law to go on the highways down in the States ? I'm guessing so, but thought I would ask anyway.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:57 pm

Frosty -

Looks like the BWs in the Canadian Yamaha line-up is the same as the Zuma in the US. The 125 BMs appears to come with the new fuel injected 4-valve engine just like the 125 Zuma down here. Same colors also.

There are restrictions down here on some high speed highways that limit motorcycle/scooter use to 150cc or larger engines. This has never been a problem for me. All the local and state highways here (Oregon) are not restricted. You really would not want to be on an Interstate highway with traffic moving at 70-80 mph and you on a small frame 125/150 scoot anyway.

FrostyTheBeerMan · Post by **FrostyTheBeerMan** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:05 pm

Hi Dooglas,

ah you have a good eye !

I never realized this. Good catch on your part, thanks for that !

Do you currently run a 125 cc ? ... if so, what is the top speed ?

Here the sales guy tells me for a 49 cc it's about 70 kph, so about 42 mph or so. Not bad for a 49 cc ( in fact, I'm amazed they go that fast )

I have a few highways here, NOT huge interstates like you find in the States, but smaller highways, that I may need to use once in a blue moon.

I don't think I'd be comfortable riding a scooter on a highway, even a smaller one, with a scooter. I'm not sure how much larger a 125 cc scooter is "physically" but I'm pretty sure it's not much larger than a 49cc model... not large enough for me to feel safe doing 100 k per hour ( about 62 miles per hour ! ) that's pretty darn fast, -- too fast for me in fact on such a small frame.

I'm glad I joined this group, this is great getting all this help that others give free, just because they love to share their knowledge and love of scootering !

Thanks again

Dooglas wrote:Frosty -

Looks like the BWs in the Canadian Yamaha line-up is the same as the Zuma in the US. The 125 BMs appears to come with the new fuel injected 4-valve engine just like the 125 Zuma down here. Same colors also.

There are restrictions down here on some high speed highways that limit motorcycle/scooter use to 150cc or larger engines. This has never been a problem for me. All the local and state highways here (Oregon) are not restricted. You really would not want to be on an Interstate highway with traffic moving at 70-80 mph and you on a small frame 125/150 scoot anyway.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:34 pm

Frosty,
I too agree you will be happier with a 125+ vs. a 50cc. Specially if you will carry a passenger.

Those loud 50cc scoots, besides being 2T, probably have some performance mods that make them louder as well. The 4T will be much quiter.

The Buddy seat is a bit cramped for 2-up riding, but maybe ok if one of the 2 people is a kid. You might want to take a look at other scooter brands/models. Best would be for you and your son to go to dealers and sit on them for a few minutes and see what you think. You can still participate here if you get a non-Buddy scoot . . . we are that friendly

Also, keep in mind the cost of the gear. At a min. you want helmet (full face or modular would be my recommendation), armored jacket, gloves and over the ankle boots. Armored pants are highly recommended. You should get gear for your son as well. It can add up. If the choice was new scoot and no gear or used scoot and gear, I would take the used scoot and gear.

Keep the questions coming.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:48 pm

FrostyTheBeerMan wrote:
Do you currently run a 125 cc ? ... if so, what is the top speed ?

Here the sales guy tells me for a 49 cc it's about 70 kph, so about 42 mph or so. Not bad for a 49 cc ( in fact, I'm amazed they go that fast )

I have a few highways here, NOT huge interstates like you find in the States, but smaller highways, that I may need to use once in a blue moon.

I don't think I'd be comfortable riding a scooter on a highway, even a smaller one, with a scooter. I'm not sure how much larger a 125 cc scooter is "physically" but I'm pretty sure it's not much larger than a 49cc model... not large enough for me to feel safe doing 100 k per hour ( about 62 miles per hour ! ) that's pretty darn fast, -- too fast for me in fact on such a small frame.

Yes, my partner and I have two 125s - a Buddy and a Vino. The Vino seems to top out in the high 50s (mph) on the level and the Buddy gets up into the middle 60s. They both really shine at speeds up to 50 or so. The Buddy is certainly a bit the quicker of the two. The Buddy 50 and the Buddy 125 are the same size (I believe its called the PGO Metro up your way). There is a small difference in dimensions on the Vino.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:20 am

Many people can do 60-65mph (100+kph for you Canadians) on a 125cc bike. Depending on your weight you will be faster/slower. Not sure how fast I can hit on top speed, I'm only 103 pounds so maybe I can hit 70mph? I'd be afraid to do those speeds. The fastest I've gone on my bike is 50mph.

FA-Q · Post by **FA-Q** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:48 am

For 2 up riding check out the Kymco People 125 or 200 in Canada. These are big wheel scoots with plenty of room. They are $3599 for the 125 with a 2 year warranty compared to the 125 Yami at $3999 with a one year warranty. If you want an extra year on the Yami in Canuckville it will cost you $430. That is $4429 for da Yami with the 2 years. Yes! That is about a grand more and we all know how far a grand worth of gas in a scooter can take you. Also check the out the door prices as they can vary widely.