PGO I'ME

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:54 pm

Just a little speculation about what we might see from Genuine in '09:

http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php?p=4157

Again, it's total speculation on my part. Sounds like a great bike, but there's surprisingly little info out there.

Bryan

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:29 am

Thanks for the video link. Yeah, that scooter does bear a resemblance to the Kymco Agility. It'll be interesting to see what motor it has in it.

Mike @ NoHo Scooters · Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:44 am

Considering Kymco could not even keep up with Agility demand before gas prices went nuts, that might be a nice addition to the line up.

SYM also has a bike similar to the Agility called the SYM-ply. Of course Carter is only bringing over the 50cc version and not the 125.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:21 am

Imagine that in the next year we could have this, the Buddy, the Agility and the SYM Vogue all on dealer floors, sometimes under the same roof. Now imagine a LML Vespa ET clone next to them...

Could be an interesting year for scooters, even if the boom dies down. More high-quality options at relatively low (sub-Vespa) prices may draw some less knowledgeable first time buyers away from Chinese scoots. And scoots like this new PGO and the Agility may help ween buyers off the retro looking scoots and onto sportier modern models.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:32 am

One can only hope....

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:36 am

ericalm wrote:Imagine that in the next year we could have this, the Buddy, the Agility and the SYM Vogue all on dealer floors, sometimes under the same roof. Now imagine a LML Vespa ET clone next to them...

As the little girl with the umbrella says, "When it rains, it pours..."

charltons · Post by **charltons** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:01 am

ericalm wrote:Imagine that in the next year we could have this, the Buddy, the Agility and the SYM Vogue all on dealer floors, sometimes under the same roof. Now imagine a LML Vespa ET clone next to them... Could be an interesting year for scooters, even if the boom dies down. More high-quality options at relatively low (sub-Vespa) prices may draw some less knowledgeable first time buyers away from Chinese scoots. And scoots like this new PGO and the Agility may help ween buyers off the retro looking scoots and onto sportier modern models.

In my part of town, the dealers that carry Genuine and Kymco have not made many inroads- but the used car-turned-scoot shops sure have. There are chinese scoots seen daily. My fear is that when the chinese ones start dying, scooters in general will get a bad rap before the genuines and kymcos get into my area. I'm doing what I can, though.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:01 am

ericalm wrote:Imagine that in the next year we could have this, the Buddy, the Agility and the SYM Vogue all on dealer floors, sometimes under the same roof. Now imagine a LML Vespa ET clone next to them... Could be an interesting year for scooters, even if the boom dies down.

With the new models that are rumored by Yamaha and the new models from Kymco (particularly Super 8 150cc (funny colors, imho)) indeed it shall be an interesting model year. Kymco's offering are suppose to be for the most part fuel injected.

Also, the SYM Wowow (or whatever the name will be if and when it gets here), the Honda Cub clone, will woo scooter buyers.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:20 am

pcbikedude wrote:Also, the SYM Wowow (or whatever the name will be if and when it gets here), the Honda Cub clone, will woo scooter buyers.

Is it confirmed that this is coming here? This could be a really fun scoot.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:15 pm

ericalm wrote:
pcbikedude wrote:Also, the SYM Wowow (or whatever the name will be if and when it gets here), the Honda Cub clone, will woo scooter buyers.
Is it confirmed that this is coming here? This could be a really fun scoot.

I haven't heard for sure. They had it at Dealer Expo to "gauge reaction" and the reaction was great, so I'm sure they'd LIKE to bring it over, but demand does not equal homologation, and who knows how much pull Carter and the american market have on SYM...

Bb.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:20 pm

pcbikedude wrote: With the new models that are rumored by Yamaha and the new models from Kymco (particularly Super 8 150cc (funny colors, imho)) indeed it shall be an interesting model year. Kymco's offering are suppose to be for the most part fuel injected.

Also, the SYM Wowow (or whatever the name will be if and when it gets here), the Honda Cub clone, will woo scooter buyers.

New models "rumored" by Yamaha? For all the buzz out there, the new Zuma is the only mid-range scoot for 2009 that is actually confirmed.

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:22 pm

ericalm wrote:Imagine that in the next year we could have this, the Buddy, the Agility and the SYM Vogue all on dealer floors, sometimes under the same roof. Now imagine a LML Vespa ET clone next to them... Could be an interesting year for scooters, even if the boom dies down. More high-quality options at relatively low (sub-Vespa) prices may draw some less knowledgeable first time buyers away from Chinese scoots. And scoots like this new PGO and the Agility may help ween buyers off the retro looking scoots and onto sportier modern models.

The MC dealership was flabbergasted that my MC riding OH would allow me to purchase a scooter. Then we explained it was a Genuine, not Chinese and he nodded his head and said that was better...and then asked if I got one that looked like a sport bike/crotch rocket to which I replied NO.

There are enough buyers for both the sporty scooters and the retro scooters to ave a good share of the market. I, personally, fall into the retro market, but that is because those are what I fell in love with 20 years ago...sojmewhat like VW bringing back the Beetle a few years back. It appealed to the market it was meant for - chicks and baby boomers reliving their youth.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:29 pm

Dooglas wrote:New models "rumored" by Yamaha? For all the buzz out there, the new Zuma is the only mid-range scoot for 2009 that is actually confirmed.

The Tmax is confirmed also, though that's not mid-range, but I don't think he limited it to mid-range. But yeah, they're not rumored, they're confirmed.

It'll be interesting (and probably disappointing) to see what Honda does next year.

Bb

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:38 pm

bunny wrote: Then we explained it was a Genuine, not Chinese and he nodded his head and said that was better.

Your Genuine IS Chinese. Made in the Republic of China.

louie · Post by **louie** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:49 pm

k1dude wrote:
bunny wrote: Then we explained it was a Genuine, not Chinese and he nodded his head and said that was better.
Your Genuine IS Chinese. Made in the Republic of China.

3, 2, 1,

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:46 pm

k1dude wrote:
bunny wrote: Then we explained it was a Genuine, not Chinese and he nodded his head and said that was better.
Your Genuine IS Chinese. Made in the Republic of China.

OK louie, I'll be the first...

You'd have most of the people in Taiwan disagreeing with that one - Taiwan is Taiwan; not China. The "ROC" tacked onto the name is just to appease the powers-that-be in China. That being said, there are a few (very few) tories living in Taiwan that would probably agree with you. And, how would you like it if this were the "United States of America, RUK" (Republic of United Kingdom)? Their situation is no different than ours when some in England got tired of the English government and decided to start their own country/government over here.

OK, I'm off my political soapbox.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:43 pm

Yes, there's a sovereignty dispute. Yes, Taiwan is the name of the island, not the name of the country. Geologic and political reality aside, there is a very marked difference in the quality of PRC-made scooters vs ROC-made scooters. In the name of simplicity and consistency within the scooter world, scooters made in the PRC are "Chinese" or "Mainland Chinese," and scooters made in the ROC are universally called "Taiwanese." ROC-based manufacturers describe their products as being manufactured in Taiwan.

"PRC" and "ROC" would be better ways to describe the difference, but most Americans don't know which is which. "Chinese" vs. "Taiwanese" is a legitimate way to describe the difference, as far as I'm concerned, and does not necessarily reflect any political bias.

Bb.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:53 pm

illnoise wrote:"PRC" and "ROC" would be better ways to describe the difference, but most Americans don't know which is which. "Chinese" vs. "Taiwanese" is a legitimate way to describe the difference, as far as I'm concerned, and does not necessarily reflect any political bias.

Not to mention that there's a definite difference in the quality of scooter being made in each. yes, there are some decent scoots manufactured in China by companies from Taiwan, Japan, etc. And not all Taiwanese scoots are great. But overall, there is a difference.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:00 am

illnoise wrote: "PRC" and "ROC" would be better ways to describe the difference, but most Americans don't know which is which.
Bb.

Disgraceful, but true.

Dennis

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:19 am

illnoise wrote:It'll be interesting (and probably disappointing) to see what Honda does next year.Bb

My guess, American Honda will remain clueless. Honda has great products in other areas of the world. But unimaginative scooter offerings here in the US.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:48 am

pcbikedude wrote:
illnoise wrote:It'll be interesting (and probably disappointing) to see what Honda does next year.Bb
My guess, American Honda will remain clueless. Honda has great products in other areas of the world. But unimaginative scooter offerings here in the US.

I'm not sure that they're clueless. They know where their bread is buttered—it's not like the company is struggling. For them, it may not be worth the effort or expense to corner the US scooter market, which is still small relative to cars and motorcycles (which have much higher profit margins). Honda can obviously sell whatever scooter inventory they bring over, but introducing new models is probably a pain in the ass and relatively expensive.

I do think (or hope) that a lot of the MC dealers that also sell scoots are changing their attitudes about how they display and sell them. in my experience, many of the dealers that sell both treat scooters as an afterthought. Salespeople don't know much about them, and don;t do much to push them. Yes, it may take as long to sell an $8K motorcycle to a customer as a scooter, but with more people coming in looking for scooters maybe they'll realize they're gaining access to a previously untapped market.