Buddy Life Expectancy

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:48 pm

SO, how long does the average Buddy live? I've got a St Tropez. They are new so there are no 10 year, 200k mile 150's out there, but who, out there in MB land, has the most miles on their Bud?

Howard

luckyleighton · Post by **luckyleighton** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:36 pm

This is good general question too about scooters...How many miles can one expect out of a well maintained, quality scoot? I talked to a motorcycle dealer that said current generation motorcycles can get 100k+ if taken care of properly.

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:08 pm

i'd think you'd be asking a hell of a lot out of a 3000 dollar scooter to expect it to go 100,000 miles.

there are some people in "buddy land" that have somewhere between 12 and 20 thousand miles. don't know who has the most

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:00 am

Several members have now topped 20K.

The key to longevity is maintenance. Keep up with the schedule, do the recommended checks and changes at the proper intervals. Don't install a ton of aftermarket mods and parts.

Will it go 100K? I don't know... maybe not. But your vehicle cost/mile will be a fraction of what it is for a car, especially if you can top 30K or more.

We may have some members pass that mark by the end of the year!

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:09 am

ericalm wrote:Several members have now topped 20K.

The key to longevity is maintenance. Keep up with the schedule, do the recommended checks and changes at the proper intervals. Don't install a ton of aftermarket mods and parts.

Will it go 100K? I don't know... maybe not. But your vehicle cost/mile will be a fraction of what it is for a car, especially if you can top 30K or more.

We may have some members pass that mark by the end of the year!

Its not a Buddy but the highest mileage of any of my scooters is the 2004 Honda Ruckus. Now am headed for 19,000 miles and it still runs well and tops out at 37-38mph on flats. It uses no oil to speak of between changes which are every 1000 miles or maybe sooner. Keep in mind that it is only 49cc. It has had one new belt, variator and rollers at 14,000 miles and a couple sets of tires. It is completely stock and shall remain that way. Stock equals greater dependability in my opinion.

The Buddy will get the same treatement and remain stock. I expect her to live a long dependable life.

Dennis

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:36 pm

This is important because Sunoco is running a contest now where you could win 5000 gallons of gas.

All you do is put a sticker on your vehicle and then hope they spot you at or near their gas stations.

Well, I plan to put the sticker on Croque Madame and then get spotted.

But when I win, I need to know that she's gonna run for 500,000 miles because right now I'm getting 100MPG.

Three tanks of gas, 303 miles. It's OUTSTANDING!

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:27 pm

sotied wrote:This is important because Sunoco is running a contest now where you could win 5000 gallons of gas.

All you do is put a sticker on your vehicle and then hope they spot you at or near their gas stations.

Well, I plan to put the sticker on Croque Madame and then get spotted.

But when I win, I need to know that she's gonna run for 500,000 miles because right now I'm getting 100MPG.

Three tanks of gas, 303 miles. It's OUTSTANDING!

I wonder what the difference in mileage is when Buddy Miles are compared to regular miles.

Dennis

Perkussion · Post by **Perkussion** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:31 pm

sotied wrote:
... right now I'm getting 100MPG.

Three tanks of gas, 303 miles. It's OUTSTANDING!

According to the Buddy manual the gas tank is 5.6L.
So unless you're really putting in only one gallon of gas
(as opposed to filling the tank you're not really getting 100 mpg.

5.6 liter = 1.479 gallon [US, liquid]

Still impressive no matter which amount you are actually filling it up to.

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:38 pm

Perkussion wrote:
sotied wrote:
... right now I'm getting 100MPG.

Three tanks of gas, 303 miles. It's OUTSTANDING!
According to the Buddy manual the gas tank is 5.6L.
So unless you're really putting in only one gallon of gas
(as opposed to filling the tank you're not really getting 100 mpg.

5.6 liter = 1.479 gallon [US, liquid]

Still impressive no matter which amount you are actually filling it up to.

The scoot came with the gauge at 1/4. I have since then put in measured amounts (in gallons) of .936, .930, 1.03 and 1.04. Have never gone so far to the bottom that I've needed to put in the whole 1.6 or 1.7 (or the 1.479 the tank specs say).

So I figure the 1/4 tank has been distributed between the .936 and .930 fills and the .03 and .04 of the other fills is negligible. So with 303 miles on it, I'm getting 100 BUDDY Miles per Gallon.

This probably comes out to 90+ real MPG, but I'm going to calibrate my odometer soon so I can be sure.

For now, I just smile politely and tell people I'm getting about 100MPG. They cry openly and then get back into their Suburbans, Excursions, Expeditions, Hummers and Jeeps.

Most I've paid is $4.58 and I've been putting in 89 octane. Same gas station. Don't know if it has ethanol.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:00 pm

Hot news must be slow this week. There was a story about the expansion of gasoline and how much people really aren't getting or are getting and the gazillion bucks they're paying but the temperature is different than what the gubmint tests so yadayadayadayada.

PUSH THOSE BUTTONS - STIR THAT POT - GET THOSE RATINGS UP!

I hate tv news.

Dennis

scootersRhogs2 · Post by **scootersRhogs2** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:33 pm

so what happens that cant be fixed at 20,000? i mean i just got my buddy and id like to hold onto eleanor for a few years.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:50 pm

I'm asking the question because I plan on commuting year round. If buddy's are only good for 20k on average, That means I'll need a new one every 18 months! Does the motor wear out on 20-30k miles? How much does it cost to replace the motor?

Howard

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:10 pm

my friend has 20k+ miles on his stella, but i haven't heard about buddy's.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:11 pm

Howardr wrote:I'm asking the question because I plan on commuting year round. If buddy's are only good for 20k on average, That means I'll need a new one every 18 months! Does the motor wear out on 20-30k miles? How much does it cost to replace the motor?

Howard

If you had to buy a new motor at maybe $1000 (don't know real cost) and throw away the old, put in yourself and ride away you would still be saving a forturne over what it costs to operate a cage.

Like anything mechanical it will depend to a great extent on how you treat it. Will you do scheduled maintenance or just ride it till it quits, fix it and go again? I've seen well known scooters destroyed in 5000 miles and the same brand still on the road with over 40000 miles. Don't know how long they will last because they are still going.

Dennis

Dennis

bfreed · Post by **bfreed** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:37 pm

My understanding is that no one has said Buddy's WILL wear out after 20k miles. 20k miles is just the number a few people have hit or are coming close to.

I think Alix's blog [plug: www.peacescooter.com] said she just hit 17,000 miles (correct me if I'm wrong...), and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone gaining mileage at a faster rate. Maybe a handful of people in the country with more miles?

The Buddys have only been around since 2006. It will probably be several more years before anyone can say with any certainty how long a Buddy will "usually" last. There isn't any "usual" data yet.

See here: topic3407.html
5 people reported being over 10k miles

and here: viewtopic.php?p=54676
4 people reported putting 10k-20k miles per year

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:42 pm

Perhaps we should look to other countries. How long has PGO been exporting the Buddy under other names? Could be interesting.

Dennis

NathanielSalzman · Post by **NathanielSalzman** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:38 pm

Every now and then you'll see Honda Elite 80 scooters from the early '80s on Craigslist still running strong with tens of thousands of miles on them. There's no reason a quality scooter shouldn't just run forever if you keep fresh oil in it. Sure, stuff is going to wear out, but here's the other kicker - most scooter parts are CHEAP!

I ran into a guy a few months ago who had a Vespa P200E with over 200,000 miles on it. I think there had been one or two engine rebuilds in there, but that's to be expected. Presuming the frame stays undamaged, something like a Buddy will need parts here and there, but I imagine you could just run the wheels off of one if you took good care of it. Of course then you'd just need to replace the wheels and you could keep going!

But what everybody should let go of is this notion that their scooter will run 100,000 miles and never need anything fixed. Anything mechanical will wear out - that's the nature of things. But a scooter is a very simple machine - even our modern CVT scooters. So as things do wear out, they're easy and cheap to replace. Anybody with basic mechanical skills can do a lot of work on their own scooter.

And for what it's worth, i heard an interview with Philip McCaleb a few months ago and he said that of all the thousands of Buddies Genuine has sold in the US, they've only had one motor give out. One! And who knows, maybe it didn't have any oil in it. That really speaks well of PGO and the bullet-proof nature of a well built, small 4T motor.

And lastly, it's a $3000 scooter. I know $3000 isn't no money at all, but you're not going to find a decent car for less than $12,000. Most people don't keep cars longer than 100k-150k miles. So if a scooter went a quarter of that, say 25k miles, then isn't that just as good as a car?

runtotorun121 · Post by **runtotorun121** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:14 pm

I am guessing the discussion is about how long a Buddy will last without having to do repairs? I was talking to my husband about my fondness for my Buddy and how sad I would be when she is on her last legs/wheels, and he asked why I feel I would have to get rid of her. He brought u p a good point that a $500-800 engine is cheaper than buying another $3000 scooter. . .

Maybe I am just feeling lucky since I have a MC worker-on'er in the house so I know we can replace and fix stuff to some degree.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:59 pm

Simple is better. Don't forget, you're talking about an air-cooled engine. How many old VWs are on the road with 200,000, 300,000 miles. If you can get a rebuilt VW engine for $1,200 bucks I can't imagine a rebuild on scooter engine would be half that.

The limiting factor would be the frame, but I wonder to what degree you can factor out rust? Most people don't ride in the rain or in road salt.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:02 pm

+1 on the argument that the better you maintain it, the longer it'll last.

If something's going to just randomly blow up in the engine, it's more likely to happen during the first thousand miles.

I bet it lasts longer if you ride it regularly, too, rather than letting it sit in the garage.

Scooters rarely die of old age, they're more likely to be forsaken by their owner, crashed, or stolen. If the engine craps out, it's usually because of poor maintenance or external factors (the case cracks from hitting a pothole, etc.) rather than the engine just blowing up because it's old.

I'd say at some point you'd want to have the bearings, seals, valves, and rings replaced, and as long as you're in there, you'd check the transmission and crank/piston. Worst case, you could overbore it a little to make up for cylinder wear.

Your belt might snap, cables will break as they get older, roller bearings will wear down, but again, that's reparable, and preventative maintenance will greatly reduce the odds, replace them when they show any sign of wear.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:21 am

Great posts everybody. I find them to be encouraging. I'm pretty good about maintaining my vehicles and don't plan on being any different with my scoot. I'm looking forward to many years with her. I do plan on "riding the wheels off" of the buddy, but I hope that is qwuite a while down the road.

BTW - I had no idea 125's had only been around since 2006. I ASSUMED they had been around a lot longer. I didn't start my way into the scooterverse until late 2007.

Howard

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:26 am

Wellll, yes and no.

In Asia, the mybubu and pgo bubu have been around for since the early 2000's, but all the one's I've seen only have a few thousand kilometers on them. The most miles I've seen put onto the bike was on this forum.

It'll last as long as you properly maintain it, it's like a car, your car does more than oil changes, sometimes a belt is cracking or breaks, you gotta replace that, or sometimes some small problems occur, and those need fixing. The scooter is similar, after so many thousands of miles, some small basic parts in the engine need replacing, but nothing major should ever be required, unless something goes wrong by accident.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:26 am

i am going to be extremely optimistic and say that a buddy scooter will last for 1 MILLION miles!!!!

<---- This is clearly an exageration.... or is it?

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:49 pm

1 million miles, that is some serious taiwanese engineering.