Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

[Portland_Rider]

Portland_Rider:

Damn, sorry to hear about the crash! Wow, hope this doesn't dissuade you from riding.

It's a good example for anyone who thinks you can't get hurt at low speeds. For the purposes of the edification of other riders and newbies, I have to ask—were you wearing an armored jacket? A lot of people often say they don't feel a need to gear up for scooter speeds. Regardless of what you were (or weren't) wearing, I think this show's that's not the case.

Keep us posted on your recovery!

Hi Eric,

Thanks man. I’ll ride again as soon as I’m healed.

I was atgatt; yes, I had on an armored jacket, despite the heat, ankle high boots, snell ff helmet, gloves. Regardless of speed planned and heat, I’ve always rode with all gear.

After my left shoulder hit and popped, my helmet hit the ground. Luckily, it was the dirt that I impacted onto.

We also had been riding 45-50mph, at stretches, on a Sunday cruise.

I’m feeling somewhat helpless without the use of my left arm; it hurts even with hospital pain killers. I’m typing with my right finger. Thankfully, my friend’s wife is a professor of nursing. She was my angel taking care of me. A woman in an suv stopped and drove me to the ER. Morphine didn’t work so they had to use other drugs.

I’m grateful to God that I don’t have any spinal, neck, or back injury.

[LisaLisa]

Here's the summary of my crash Thursday night.
1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? 125 Color? "Cream", but I call it "Lemon Ice"
2. Was the crash due to rider error? No. What time of day did it occur? 5pm. Rush hour. Guy suddenly flipped his pickup truck into reverse and rammed me.
3. Could the crash have been avoided? Not by me. The driver of the truck could have looked behind him before hitting reverse. What will you do differently next time? Not curse so much when I'm lying on the ground.
4. Was the rider injured? Yes. bruises and pulled muscles
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? Front Panels cracked, lights, busted wiring...
6. Cost of repairs, if any? Unknown
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? 6 months. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? license
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? Yes
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes
10. How fast was the rider going? negative 1 mph- scrambling backwards out of the way
11. How far was the rider from home? 400 yards


The one thing that was great was that I was fully geared up, and even though I flew off the bike and landed on my back and head, I wasn't seriously injured. I was wishing for knee pads, though, because the bike landed on my shins.

[LisaLisa]

Portland, so sorry to hear about your crash.
I hope you have a good person looking after you. Hang in there.

[Jake]

The one thing that was great was that I was fully geared up, and even though I flew off the bike and landed on my back and head, I wasn't seriously injured. I was wishing for knee pads, though, because the bike landed on my shins.

cough*sue*cough

[Portland_Rider]

Portland, so sorry to hear about your crash.
I hope you have a good person looking after you. Hang in there.

lisalisa,

i wish you the same. what happened to you sucks. my thoughts and prayers are with you my scooter sister.

since i've lived here in portland only 7 weeks my support system is small yet there are many people here who reach out to those they barely know. i'll make it. hope i dont need that surgery.

pr

[pugbuddy]

Portland Rider--heal! I hope surgery is not required too.

LisaLisa, is that picture from your crash? When I saw that I figured the crash was much worse than you describe!

[Portland_Rider]

Portland Rider--heal! I hope surgery is not required too.

LisaLisa, is that picture from your crash? When I saw that I figured the crash was much worse than you describe!

thanks pubuddy, i appreciate your thoughts

pr

[LisaLisa]

LisaLisa, is that picture from your crash? When I saw that I figured the crash was much worse than you describe!

They do that to you no matter what. I was lashed to a back board for about an hour, staring at the ceiling bored stiff while they worked on the people in worse shape than me. I do wish I had one of those whiplash collars now, tho. My neck really does hurt when I move it, and I still have the headache. I'm achy sore all over, but I'll be right as rain in a week or two. Nothing is broken or torn.

[sunshinen]

What time of day did it occur? 5pm. Rush hour. Guy suddenly flipped his pickup truck into reverse and rammed me.

My god, what was he doing?? Did you ever find out?

I don't usually worry about the person stopped in front of me. This is the sort of random idiocy thing that makes me think perhaps I should trade in my black helmet for an orange one. Perhaps a bright orange ball in his rear view mirror might have forcefully grabbed his attention -- before he decided just to throw it into reverse.

Glad you're mostly okay. Hope the bruises and muscles heal quickly!

[Scalpel]

I was lashed to a back board for about an hour, staring at the ceiling bored stiff while they worked on the people in worse shape than me.

Wow, how many people did this guy run over?

[LisaLisa]

My god, what was he doing?? Did you ever find out?

Here's a sorta diagram of the situation. He's too far forward to cleanly turn into the side street, so he backs up. He initially went forward because he thought it would give him an advantage in crossing the heavy south bound traffic.

I don't usually worry about the person stopped in front of me. This is the sort of random idiocy thing that makes me think perhaps I should trade in my black helmet for an orange one. Perhaps a bright orange ball in his rear view mirror might have forcefully grabbed his attention -- before he decided just to throw it into reverse.

He never turned his head- nor was he looking on the mirror. He never saw me because he does not have eyes in the back of his head.

This is why when crossing the street as a pedestrian, you should never cross behind a car- even one that is way over the crosswalk. They back up without looking.

Wow, how many people did this guy run over?

Just me, but there's always a buncha people getting treated in the emergency room. I was in pretty good shape so I had to wait.

[sunshinen]

My god, what was he doing?? Did you ever find out?

Here's a sorta diagram of the situation. He's too far forward to cleanly turn into the side street, so he backs up. He initially went forward because he thought it would give him an advantage in crossing the heavy south bound traffic.

I don't usually worry about the person stopped in front of me. This is the sort of random idiocy thing that makes me think perhaps I should trade in my black helmet for an orange one. Perhaps a bright orange ball in his rear view mirror might have forcefully grabbed his attention -- before he decided just to throw it into reverse.

He never turned his head- nor was he looking on the mirror. He never saw me because he does not have eyes in the back of his head.

I guess, I feel obnoxious orange things sometimes grab people's peripheral vision — make them go, "what the hell is that?" and then actually look into their previously ignored mirror to see what that orange speck bopping around is. I can't put eyes on the back of their head... but maybe I can encourage them to use the eyes on the front of their head.

Thanks for the diagram. I have a few places like that, where the temptation is for people to crowd into that turning space, to fit as many vehicles through the gaps in oncoming cars as possible, or just to be nice to get out of the way of the people behind that are not turning. From now on, I'll probably not creep into that space until the person in front of me is out of it. ... Unless I feel more threatened by the cars coming from behind me in the right lane...

And just to clarify. This is all hypothetical. I'm NOT at all trying to say that an orange helmet would have prevented this, especially since he was sort of in motion, not stopped impatiently at a light as I had envisioned from the first description. He clearly was in a hurry and driving recklessly and sometimes nothing will divert someone from their "mission" to get where they're going as fast as possible and without concern for anyone else. Sometimes, there really is nothing you can do about it.

[Pete1ks]

My god, what was he doing?? Did you ever find out?

Here's a sorta diagram of the situation. He's too far forward to cleanly turn into the side street, so he backs up. He initially went forward because he thought it would give him an advantage in crossing the heavy south bound traffic.

I don't usually worry about the person stopped in front of me. This is the sort of random idiocy thing that makes me think perhaps I should trade in my black helmet for an orange one. Perhaps a bright orange ball in his rear view mirror might have forcefully grabbed his attention -- before he decided just to throw it into reverse.

He never turned his head- nor was he looking on the mirror. He never saw me because he does not have eyes in the back of his head.

This is why when crossing the street as a pedestrian, you should never cross behind a car- even one that is way over the crosswalk. They back up without looking.

Wow, how many people did this guy run over?

Just me, but there's always a buncha people getting treated in the emergency room. I was in pretty good shape so I had to wait.

It sucks that this happened to you.

Where was your bike positioned? Were you in lane position 1, where the driver could see you through both his side mirror and rear-view mirror?

Also, how far back from the truck were you?

[LisaLisa]

I was where the bike is in the diagram, behind the red pickup truck. About 5-6 feet back, more to the left than the center of his truck. The dashed arrow was where we were supposed to be going. The red arrow was where he did go, and the cream arrow shows how I was furiously backpedaling to get out of the way.

I could see his head in the rear window and in and his rear view and side mirrors. He was not looking. Police report says he was at fault due to "Improper Backing".

[Jessica]

I hate to have to finally post to this thread, but here goes:

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? 50
Color? Black and Silver
2. Was the crash due to rider error? No.
What time of day did it occur? 7:10pm
3. Could the crash have been avoided? Not unless I could predict the future.
What would you do differently next time? Call the police.
4. Was the rider injured? Not physically....just sad for my scoot!
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? rim around headlight busted, top panel that holds headlight cracked, scraped up right brake control, scrapes on right side panels, scraped up front panel, scraped up front fender, scraped up right mirror, scraped up muffler guard
6. Cost of repairs, if any? 763.20 parts and labor
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? 2 months
Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? Neither.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? No.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes
10. How fast was the rider going? 1-2 mph
11. How far was the rider from home? half a block or so

I was coming home from work and making a right turn into my apartment complex. I had slowed nearly to a stop to make the turn. I was in the left half of the right lane on a two lane road. The girl in the SUV behind me had tried to pass me ON THE RIGHT and hit me as I turned. The next thing I knew, I was on the pavement. She claims she didn't know I was turning, my blinker was on. Why was she passing me on the right anyway? I was not hurt since I was practically stopped, but "Peggy" is pretty banged up. It's driveable, but cosmetically bad.

[ericalm]

Jessica, sorry to hear about your crash. You definitely should have called the police for this—the SUV driver probably would have been ticketed. Hope it all works out with insurance and so on.

[ericalm]

I think the vibration actually helped lull him to sleep. He eventually switched to his car, which I guess was somewhat safer.

For him maybe, but not anyone else
He should move somewhere with excellent public transport.

This was a very long time ago. He doesn't ride anymore as far as I know.

[LisaLisa]

Oh, that's rough, Jessica. Good news is that you can order and put those panels on yourself if you have to. I'm upgrading to the stebel horn, and getting streetglo for the bike

[adam]

No permit=no insurance

[Portland_Rider]

jessica,

sorry to read about your scoot. i'm glad that are not physically hurt. i had my own crash this past weekend and ended up in the er room.

please ride as safely as possible with full health and scoot coverage.

pr

[Dooglas]

I was coming home from work and making a right turn into my apartment complex. I had slowed nearly to a stop to make the turn. I was in the left half of the right lane on a two lane road. The girl in the SUV behind me had tried to pass me ON THE RIGHT and hit me as I turned. The next thing I knew, I was on the pavement. She claims she didn't know I was turning, my blinker was on. Why was she passing me on the right anyway? I was not hurt since I was practically stopped, but "Peggy" is pretty banged up. It's driveable, but cosmetically bad.

Ouch, Jessica. Sorry to hear about this one. Don't try to be Ms. Nice Guy here. File an accident report with your DMV or local police (however that works in your state) and file a claim with the other driver's insurance company. None of this "we'll work it out" stuff you often hear from jerks after they do something like this.

[charlie55]

Jessica:

If passing on the right is indeed illegal in your state (believe it or not, it IS legal in NJ) then her excuse is entirely ungrounded since, by her own admission she didn't see you signaling. Logically then, she had no valid reason to assume that you were going to do anything other than proceed in a straight line, and should never have attempted to pass you in the lane you were occupying.

One thing however, while you do have every right to be in one of the three riding positions within a lane (left, center, right), I've found that riding in anything but the center of the lane (except when you need to maintain visibility) serves as an open invitation to getting your legs exfoliated by an imbecile. Just the other day, I was holding the left position in my lane while approaching a string of between 15 and 20 cars at a stoplight. Tapped the brakes a few times and throttled down only to have some cretin try to jam between my right side and the curb in an effort to be the first one into the traffic jam, no less. Her mirror missed my right elbow by about an inch, but I think it cost her a good eighth of an inch of rubber off her sidewalls.

Moral of the story: in order to ride like a genius, you've sometimes got to think like an idiot.

Best of luck to you, and smooth riding from here on.....

[maribell]

Was never looking forward to filling this out.

Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? 125cc
Color? Pink
Was the crash due to rider error? More than likely
What time of day did it occur? 5:45 PM
Could the crash have been avoided? Yeah. I need to hone my two up riding skills.
What would you do differently next time? Wear a long sleeved shirt.
Was the rider injured? I am sporting some road rash on my forearm. Two scrapes about the size of a fun size butterfinger each. Minor scratches on knee and foot.
What was the damage to the Buddy? Broken right mirror, more scratches.
Cost of repairs, if any? <$50
How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Seven months.
Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? License
Had the rider completed the MSF course? No.
Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes
How fast was the rider going? 12- 15 mph
How far was the rider from home? 13 miles from home, 0.4 miles away from school.

Riding two up with a friend on the way to her apartment. Took a right turn and either hit some gravel or leaned too much and we tipped over. She landed on top of me, so she is fine. My arm hurts.

[ericalm]

Was never looking forward to filling this out.

I get a feeling of dread every time someone replies to this thread.

Sorry to hear about this, but glad you, friend and Buddy are relatively okay.

[johnnyray]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Black 125

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
shared error, turned right on red just as it turned green and some butthead in a big van raced through the yellow light and hit me - 5:20

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
yes, NO TURNS ON RED

4. Was the rider injured?
yes, stitches and severely bruised from head to toe

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
broken right mirror, bent left brake handle, scrape along left lower body frame

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
$125 quoted for parts not sure how much for labor

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
3 months of riding and I have a MC License

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
no, but I'm planning on taking it now

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
yes

10. How fast was the rider going?
20 mph

11. How far was the rider from home?
1 mile

[ericalm]

Crap, another one! Crashes should be decreasing in late summer.

Sorry to hear about this, as always, johnnyray. Hope you're not in too much pain and heal up soon.

Just out of curiosity, where did you need stitches?

[bunny]

Just out of curiosity, where did you need stitches?

Reading this made me think of The Princess Bride...

"And remember, this is for posterity, so be honest. How do you feel?"

[johnnyray]

Stitches are in my chin - I know - definitely reconsidering getting a full face helmet and gloves as well - my left hand is like ground beef

[ericalm]

Stitches are in my chin - I know - definitely reconsidering getting a full face helmet and gloves as well - my left hand is like ground beef

Ouch. Hope you're right handed.

[Dooglas]

Gosh, johnnyray. Sorry to hear about your accident and your injuries. Hope you are up and back in the saddle before too long. At the risk of sounding like I'm kicking a guy when he's down, you realize this is an avoidable type of accident with more situational awareness and defensive driving. You should be prepared for other folks to run yellow lights. If you read through the crash thread posts above you will see many instances where people say "maybe I was at fault", "could have been my fault", "partially", "I don't know", etc. Nearly all of those and some of the "not my fault" ones to boot really fall in the same category as your accident. Riding a scoot means you lose all the ties so it requires a different approach to driving. Learn from your experience, take that MSF course, and go out and enjoy your scoot again. Best of luck to you.

[broke]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Orange 125
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Rider error. 3pm
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yes. Teach new rider in less restricted area.
4. Was the rider injured?
Slightly. Shoulder pain. She sees the doctor next week.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Scratches only. Mirror knocked loose but didn't break.
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Won't repair it. It's character.
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
30 seconds. neither.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
nope.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
yep.
10. How fast was the rider going?
very slow. maybe 2mph
11. How far was the rider from home?
2 blocks.

We bought Buddy for my wife. I rode it from dealer to her friend's house where she was waiting to show it off. Before she got on it I warned her that even though the motorcycle manual says that you should always use both brakes when slowing, she should stick to the rear brake only until she figures out how to position her hand so she doesn't accidentally throttle when using front brake. She took off very slowly and went to make a U-turn in the street when... wait for it... yes, she grabbed the front brake and ended up throttling, getting too close to the curb, and then lost it. She landed in the grass next to the curb and Buddy slid along someone's driveway.

She landed hard and I'm worried that she may have torn ligaments in her shoulder. It still hurts her 2 months later and she is finally going to see a specialist about it.

But, she jumped right up at the time and wanted to "try again"... so I really admire her not letting her first ride and crash scare her!

It is kinda hard to get into an MSF course around here (they have very abnormal schedules for families with kids and LONG waiting lists) and the state driving test is only given about 40 miles from our home during work days... so she hasn't had a chance to get her license yet. (So I get to ride Buddy pretty much whenever I want!)

[broke]

Portland Rider: I am very sorry to hear about your crash! I'm thinking good thoughts for you!

On a related note: You weren't at PortlandVespa on the Saturday before your accident getting an oil change were you?

[LisaLisa]

Wow! I did the same thing on my husband's people 250 a month before I took the MSF and bought my buddy! And like your wife I did get back on and rode for 20 minutes more.

Hope she feels better soon.

[Dooglas]

We bought Buddy for my wife. I rode it from dealer to her friend's house where she was waiting to show it off. Before she got on it I warned her that even though the motorcycle manual says that you should always use both brakes when slowing, she should stick to the rear brake only until she figures out how to position her hand so she doesn't accidentally throttle when using front brake. She took off very slowly and went to make a U-turn in the street when... wait for it... yes, she grabbed the front brake and ended up throttling, getting too close to the curb, and then lost it. She landed in the grass next to the curb and Buddy slid along someone's driveway.

I hope you've read some of the experiences of others. Most everybody concedes that it is a bad idea to appoint yourself to train a newbie rider, especially a close friend or spouse. The outcome is seldom good as it was not in this case. The right answer is the MSF course (or a private instructor for those who don't deal well with group classes). By the time she heals a little, I imagine there will be no problem getting into a fall MSF course.

(I hope I don't sound arrogant. It is truly painful to read stories like yours and know it could have gone differently.)

[ericalm]

Wow, a lot of crashes reported this week.

Every crash that gets reported is helpful and appreciated. We'll be compiling the crash report stats again sometime, and I think it'll be interesting to see changes since our last report. The big factor now is, of course, the huge number of new riders out on the streets. It seems that many of the crashes reported in the past few months have been riders with less than 90 days experience, many of whom had not taken the MSF course.

As always, MB policy is not to judge and to respect others' decisions about when to ride and what to wear. We get no satisfaction from hearing about riders crashing or getting injured. I worry about the day we get a report of a member getting a debilitating injury or, worse, a fatality.

So, everyone, thanks for the posts, your honesty and openness about your crashes. Heal up and ride safe.

[Portland_Rider]

Portland Rider: I am very sorry to hear about your crash! I'm thinking good thoughts for you!

On a related note: You weren't at PortlandVespa on the Saturday before your accident getting an oil change were you?

broke,

thanks for the good thoughts.

no, i wasn't at vp the previous week getting an oil change. i had ridden home my new italia two weeks ago so i'm a newbie on a new scoot.

yesterday, i stopped in pv since they are located somewhat close to my orthopedics surgeon's office. there was a goddess in there buying a new battery for her vespa. at the time, my pain meds were kicking in making me feel really out of it. i'm pissed now because she seemed very friendly and approachable.

pr

[cadillaczac]

Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Painpolona 150
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Maybe, mostly road conditions, around 5:30 PM
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
No, the road takes no prisoners
4. Was the rider injured?
Yes, hyperextended knee
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Bent front wheel
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
$200.00
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Plenty of experience, no license
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
MSF...BS
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
No
10. How fast was the rider going?
20 mph
11. How far was the rider from home?
3 blocks

[ericalm]

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
No, the road takes no prisoners

Except, apparently, you.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Plenty of experience, no license
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
MSF...BS

Calling the MSF BS is pretty ridiculous. It's the best way for new riders to get a good foundation of riding skills before beading out onto the streets. A lot of people have a "just get on it and go" attitude. And a lot of them have crashed. Your balls-on attitude may work for you (though it appears to have failed you in this instance) but what's the point of discouraging others from taking the course?

For all your experience, you went down. That sucks. However, blaming "road conditions" and saying "the road takes no prisoners" is just a way to avoid saying you got into a situation your experience couldn't get you out of.

Sorry to hear about your crash, cadillaczac. I'm particularly sorry for the scooter's owner. Hope you or insurance will cover the damage and any medical you may need.

[charlie55]

Maybe BS was short for "basic skills"?

[Dooglas]

Maybe "no license" is short for no structured training, no skills testing, and no insurance.

[coffeekittie]

First of all, I'm not posting that I crashed att, just responding to the most recent posts.

Come on everyone! We are a smart, capable group of forward thinking people! Insurance, MSF course, practicing our skills all = Good Ideas for Good, Responsible Drivers. There is no shame in taking a class or reading a good book or two. Doesn't make you a weenie

[Kaos]

Wow, it kinda worries me that so many people have crashed this week! It feels like its national take out a scooter rider week....

[Portland_Rider]

maybe 'bs' is a respectful way of alluding to the 'msf' as the equivalent to a university bs degree from an ivy league school?

[taile84]

I don't wanna Crash!!!

I have only put 165 miles on my bud , but when I drove to work in my car today, I realized I was trying soo hard to be focused and alert on the road for other two-wheelers and cars that I was driving extremely cautious. Its exhausting! Bad drivers and unaware drivers really scare me.

[indy anna]

I'm reading MSF...BS as "Basic Skills," too.

OK, mine happened a couple weeks ago, and I should have posted it then. Thank goodness it wasn't major.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?

150cc Saint Tropez

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?

My fault. Around 11 a.m.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?

More leaning and less speed as I entered the turn would have prevented this, I'm sure, as well as LOOKING WHERE I WANTED TO GO. That's the main thing I'm aware of having done wrong -- I was looking directly at the curb across the street from my driveway, and that's what I hit.

4. Was the rider injured?

Broken left wrist requiring surgery and metal to repair.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?

None that I can tell, but when I'm able to ride again, I'll have the local dealer look at it.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?

To be determined.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?

Had my scooter a little over a week at the time. Have my permit, and I had applied for the Basic Skills Course in October. Canceled that and will schedule it again in the spring.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?

No.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?

Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?

As I drove up the driveway, I wasn't going very fast (not sure of MPH). I felt like I shot across the street before hitting the curb. I probably gave the scooter more throttle than I realized.

11. How far was the rider from home?


Right across the street.


I feel very fortunate that the curbs on my street are fairly low and worn, because my scooter went up over the curb, rather than hitting it and coming to a sudden stop. So this wasn't a crash, per se. I brought the scooter to a stop in my neighbor's yard -- neither it nor I fell. It really brings home the need for training and gear, believe me. I had all the gear on, but unfortunately the gear couldn't protect my wrist from absorbing the impact when the scooter went over the curb.

[cadillaczac]

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
No, the road takes no prisoners

Except, apparently, you.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Plenty of experience, no license
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
MSF...BS

Calling the MSF BS is pretty ridiculous. It's the best way for new riders to get a good foundation of riding skills before beading out onto the streets. A lot of people have a "just get on it and go" attitude. And a lot of them have crashed. Your balls-on attitude may work for you (though it appears to have failed you in this instance) but what's the point of discouraging others from taking the course?

For all your experience, you went down. That sucks. However, blaming "road conditions" and saying "the road takes no prisoners" is just a way to avoid saying you got into a situation your experience couldn't get you out of.

Sorry to hear about your crash, cadillaczac. I'm particularly sorry for the scooter's owner. Hope you or insurance will cover the damage and any medical you may need.

WOW...Let me clarify before everyone gets too judgemental ...
BS=too expensive for skills I already know or may not benefit from (sorry people),I meant no discouragment to others that may not have ridden before, it's a great course.
"The road takes no prisoners" is stating (with humor ) that hitting sand when accelarating out of a corner is probably something no one could have avoided, as I was unprepaired by not looking ahead for danger.
I think the moral of the story (and hopefully everyone can get something out of this) is that no matter how experienced or comfortable you are (I have ridden dirt bikes, street bikes, motorcycles, anything on two or four wheels ect... for several years) that you may crash. Crashing shouldn''t discourage anyone, you get back up, you learn and you ride on.

[ericalm]

WOW...Let me clarify before everyone gets too judgemental ...
BS=too expensive for skills I already know or may not benefit from (sorry people),I meant no discouragment to others that may not have ridden before, it's a great course.
"The road takes no prisoners" is stating (with humor ) that hitting sand when accelarating out of a corner is probably something no one could have avoided, as I was unprepaired by not looking ahead for danger.
I think the moral of the story (and hopefully everyone can get something out of this) is that no matter how experienced or comfortable you are (I have ridden dirt bikes, street bikes, motorcycles, anything on two or four wheels ect... for several years) that you may crash. Crashing shouldn''t discourage anyone, you get back up, you learn and you ride on.

Sorry if I came off as harsh (okay, I was being harsh). Between "MSF...BS" and "take no prisoners," I got the impression you were being flippant about crashing and about the need for proper preparation and, well, not riding like a squid. Probably the opposite of what it sounds you were trying to say. There are plenty of people who do have those attitudes; I've run into them in person and on other forums. Thanks for clarifying and again, sorry for coming down on you like that.

[Dooglas]

Hmmm. So MSF...BS meant pretty much what I thought - and that was not "basic skills", or "bachelor of science", or any of that creative stuff that others suggested. As individuals we all make our own choices and cadillaczac has made his. For the rest of you that are thinking about this, I know several folks who felt they learned a great deal from the MSF basic course even after having a fair amount of riding under their belt. For those that are ready for more, there are the intermediate and advanced courses. As for cost, how much are you worth? Your call.

[pugbuddy]

Wow, I'm glad everyone is basically ok although we've got some healing to do!

there was a goddess in there buying a new battery for her vespa. at the time, my pain meds were kicking in making me feel really out of it. i'm pissed now because she seemed very friendly and approachable.

Another wreck! Arrrgghhh! I hate it when that happens! Should you fill out an accident report?

1. How did the goddess rate (1-10)?
2. What color was her hair?
3. What could you have done differently to generate a more positive outcome?
4. What meds were you on? How would you avoid this in the future if you were on meds?
5. Is there hope you may get another chance if you go back to the site of the accident?

[coffeekittie]

Wow, I'm glad everyone is basically ok although we've got some healing to do!

there was a goddess in there buying a new battery for her vespa. at the time, my pain meds were kicking in making me feel really out of it. i'm pissed now because she seemed very friendly and approachable.

Another wreck! Arrrgghhh! I hate it when that happens! Should you fill out an accident report?

1. How did the goddess rate (1-10)?
2. What color was her hair?
3. What could you have done differently to generate a more positive outcome?
4. What meds were you on? How would you avoid this in the future if you were on meds?
5. Is there hope you may get another chance if you go back to the site of the accident?

Hmmm. Yet another reason to take the course - the losses of a crash go beyond pain and wrecking your scoot!