150cc Kit?

[GenuineSlacker]

Is there a 150cc (or higher) kit made for buddy (or rather buddy compatible). I know that it would void the warranty no matter what, just mostly curious for later, or maybe just now. I know the exhausts (and I'd probably get that too) If you couldn't tell, I want to be able to peg the spedometer every time I go out.

[Keys]

I'm thinkin' that you will be able to reach top speed faster but that top speed really won't change that much. The engine is only able to rev SO fast. I have pegged my speedo twice and both times the engine was buzzing WAY too fast. I won't do it again.

Bottom line; if you are making enough power to reach 80 mph on a consistant basis, you'll have to change the final gearing to be able to do so. I don't know if there are any gear-sets available for the Buddy transmission...maybe a dealer could answer that a little better. I don't know who manufactures PGO's CVT's. I know that TGB makes 'em for Piaggio among others and since they are a Taiwanese company, it is possible that they also make CVT's for PGO. If so, then you will probably be able to find a gear-set somewhere.

--Keys

[rajron]

This is not like the 2 Stroke scoots – we have a 4 Stroke motor so to increase the motor from 125 to 150 cc will mean a lot of work, including new head, new pistons and most likely a new barrel – who knows maybe even a new crank and rods. – So the warranty will defiantly be voided

So increasing the motor capacity will be a major job – but for me I am all in and willing to do now!!!!!!

[Bryce-O-Rama]

Is there a 150cc (or higher) kit made for buddy (or rather buddy compatible). I know that it would void the warranty no matter what, just mostly curious for later, or maybe just now. I know the exhausts (and I'd probably get that too) If you couldn't tell, I want to be able to peg the spedometer every time I go out.

There is no cylinder kit available at present.

Bottom line; if you are making enough power to reach 80 mph on a consistant basis, you'll have to change the final gearing to be able to do so. I don't know if there are any gear-sets available for the Buddy transmission...maybe a dealer could answer that a little better. I don't know who manufactures PGO's CVT's. I know that TGB makes 'em for Piaggio among others and since they are a Taiwanese company, it is possible that they also make CVT's for PGO. If so, then you will probably be able to find a gear-set somewhere.

You will also need to adjust your roller weights to work well with the new torque and power curve of the enlarged engine, especially if you find a final drive kit. One of the advantages of a CVT scooter is that you can dramatically alter your gearing a lot more than you could with a conventional manual transmission. That is, of course, if after market parts are available. Which is why in Europe there is a lot of radical tuning for 50cc scooters.

This is not like the 2 Stroke scoots – we have a 4 Stroke motor so to increase the motor from 125 to 150 cc will mean a lot of work, including new head, new pistons and most likely a new barrel – who knows maybe even a new crank and rods. – So the warranty will defiantly be voided

That's actually not the case. The Malossi 190 kit for the Piaggio LEADER engines simply have a larger bore cylinder and piston. The stock cylinder head, valves, camshaft, etc. all stay the way they are.

[rajron]

Bryce-O-Rama;

I am not familiar with how these motors can be modified if its so simple as to change the pistons and cylinder keeping the original head then it will be easier than I thought – great!
I take it that the people that do these bore kits modify the heads with opening up the ports and increasing valve sizes? Or is it just fine keeping the head stock as it is?
( I should state I’m not interested in getting really radical just want to get more punch out of this little scoot)
But with that good news you say there are no kits for the Buddy 125, - Do you know of any in the works??
Also you mentioned the x-mission – what should be done? Well that is assuming we were to get more power.

[vitaminC]

I've been reading up about various motorcycles lately, and in one case there was something similar as what Bryce is taking about. Cagiva used a 900cc Ducati engine, but used the head off a 750cc Duc. Essentially this boosted the torque while sacrificing a bit off the top end (bike is a Cagiva Gran Canyon). Probably the same thing would happen here, though with some CVT tuning you would likely still be able to get an increase in the top-end speed.

[ericalm]

Well, you won't be able to add another 150cc to the Buddy...

A cylinder kit for the Buddy would be great, but you'd have to invest a lot of dough to get it to a point where it will easily peg the speedo and cruise at the speed... if it ever got to that point. The good part of it is that the Buddy is cheap enough that by the time you upped it to a blazing-fast rocket you'd have spent less than if you'd bought a Vespa.

But given that you'd be giving up Genuine's generous 2-year warranty and possibly sacrificing a certain amount of reliability, you mihgt be better off selling the Buddy and paying the difference for one of the (reputed) 200cc 2007 Blurs. Still less than a comparable Vespa and probably faster than a kitted Buddy (if such a kit existed).

[rajron]

The Blur in my eyes is a little bitty motorcycle disguised as a scooter, its not what I want.
The Buddy is a small agile scooter that is more than adequate for nearly every situation I encounter – I just want to have one of the fastest Buddy 125/150/180’s around. I cherish the times I surprise other motorist how quick even the stock Buddy is, with the extra power I’m looking for it will just make it even more fun.
In no way am I confusing the original intent of the Buddy, I just want to enhance its performance to make it a more fulfilling ride.
To null and void the 2 year warranty is not a good thing but that’s something I will have to deal with at the time.

[ericalm]

The Blur in my eyes is a little bitty motorcycle disguised as a scooter, its not what I want.
The Buddy is a small agile scooter that is more than adequate for nearly every situation I encounter – I just want to have one of the fastest Buddy 125/150/180’s around. I cherish the times I surprise other motorist how quick even the stock Buddy is, with the extra power I’m looking for it will just make it even more fun.
In no way am I confusing the original intent of the Buddy, I just want to enhance its performance to make it a more fulfilling ride.
To null and void the 2 year warranty is not a good thing but that’s something I will have to deal with at the time.

Well, there are a few things you could do right away to give the Buddy a speed boost. The new performance pipe reportedly adds speed. A windshield (if you don't already have one) will add to your top end. Then, as Bryce suggested, changing out the roller weights can give you a boost as well.

I've heard, however, that a lot of upgrades may add to top end speed but diminish your off the line speed or vice versa. This is certainly true if you go with lighter or heavier rollers (so some people mix 'em up). I think the most balanced upgrade is still the (nonexistant) cylinder kit.

The impact of all these upgrades on reliability is less a concern with 4-stroke scoots than 2-strokes, but I am happy to let other riders with a more pressing need for speed to play guinea pigs with the Buddys.

I'm all in favor of performance upgrades (I do plan on putting a new pipe, new rollers and a 190 kit on my LX!), but a lot of people who inquire about them over on MV seem to have unrealistic expectations of what they can deliver in exchange for the costs.

[lou76]

...changing out the roller weights can give you a boost as well.

has anyone tracked down what the stock roller weight is yet? does tgb make the variator?

[Bryce-O-Rama]

Bryce-O-Rama;

I am not familiar with how these motors can be modified if its so simple as to change the pistons and cylinder keeping the original head then it will be easier than I thought – great!
I take it that the people that do these bore kits modify the heads with opening up the ports and increasing valve sizes? Or is it just fine keeping the head stock as it is?

No, the cylinder head stays stock. You get a new cylinder, a new piston, and a new set of rings. Those pieces are all of a larger diameter than the original, this is why the kit for the Piaggio engines is called the "190 kit". The increase in piston diameter means the displacement goes up from 150cc to 190cc. Interestingly enough, there is also a 125cc version of the air cooled Vespa engine. It and the 150 share everything but the diameter of the cylinder and piston. So the 190 kit works on the 125cc Piaggio too. You may also get a piston with a different profile for increased compression. This basically means the air and fuel get squished more and become more volatile just before being ignited, which makes more power.

But with that good news you say there are no kits for the Buddy 125, - Do you know of any in the works??

As far as I know, there isn't anything in the pipeline. I've been surprised before. Your best hope would be researching the PGO 125 engine and how it relates to the 150cc engine in the Blur (G-Max) and the 200cc air cooled engine that is going into the Canadian market G-Max. If those turn out to be the same basic engine, you could then theoretically mix and match parts for ideal power output. If it's possible, I think a 200cc cylinder with a 4 valve head would be pretty awesome. That said, I have no clue as to whether or not that's even a possibility.

Also you mentioned the x-mission – what should be done? Well that is assuming we were to get more power.

Nothing you do to the transmission will increase the power output. It will only change the way it is put to the ground through the rear wheel. Changing roller weights can offer you an increased top speed, or better acceleration, but one is almost always sacrificed for the other. On tuned engines, getting an aftermarket variator and playing with the weights allows you to optimize your "gearing" for the engine's power band. That's basically what transmission modification does for you. Of course, it's a dark art with a lot of trial and error.