thoughts on scooter theft (directors cut, aka long)

Discussion of Genuine Scooters and Anything Scooter Related

Moderator: Modern Buddy Staff

User avatar
redhandmoto
Member
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:37 am

Post by redhandmoto »

jasondavis48108 wrote: [ One thing I would say though, is that you still can't beat really good insurance. I saw a video (posted here somewhere I think) where they tested various motorcycle chain locks and the longest any of them lasted was about 50 seconds against a good cable cutter. I think the kryptonite ny fahgettaboudit lasted all of about 40 seconds.
Yep; nothin's bulletproof.

Regrettably, I think that we may expect to see more theft from homes, so "layers" of safeguards - including good insurance policies - are called for. We insure even the little 49cc-ers, which are otherwise exempt from registration, tags, etc. It's just part of the realistic cost of ownership.

The bike shed is illuminated with energy-efficient floods, locked behind a locked fence, and alarmed. The tie-down shown is behind a six-foot fence around the yard: the gate is locked night and day, and illuminated nighttimes also. The only things we haven't done are to turn Rottweilers loose and string concertina.

Sad, this seige mentality. This is a stable and (relatively) prosperous suburb outside a major city; the seeming tranquility by day is belied by the police helicopters in tight circles overhead at night: thefts from parked autos, thefts from yards, garages, sheds.
honi soit qui mal y pense
User avatar
KABarash
Member
Posts: 2049
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:48 pm
Location: Depends on where I happen to be.

Post by KABarash »

redhandmoto wrote:if I were a scoot thief, I'd find this depressing...
What depresses me the most is we have to take these sort of measures to keep our things our things!!!
Or is it that I've just lost my grip on reality? I kinda live in the 'boonies' I leave my house without a lock 90% of the time, my vehicles sit on the driveway and unlocked garage with the keys ALL the time....


By the way, 'Red': Necessary or not, in my mind, your solution looks great!
Aging is mandatory, growing up is optional.
My kids call me 'crazy', I prefer 'Eccentric'.
Nullius in verba
User avatar
redhandmoto
Member
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:37 am

Post by redhandmoto »

KABarash wrote:What depresses me the most is we have to take these sort of measures to keep our things our things!!!
Or is it that I've just lost my grip on reality? I kinda live in the 'boonies' I leave my house without a lock 90% of the time, my vehicles sit on the driveway and unlocked garage with the keys ALL the time....
Well, we're finding that we now must take the ordinary and usual measures against theft that people in other parts of the world accept - have always accepted - as common prudence.

That's a little upsetting to we who are used to a less, uh, vulnerable milieu, but rather than become depressed, maybe we should adjust our mindset a bit to "reasonable": it is reasonable that we periodically repair and re-paint our house, for instance, to reasonably prevent it's "loss" to natural wear and breakdown.

Theft has always existed, and will always exist, just as rust, natural decay, and material wear. Despair about those things is counterproductive; we can enjoy neither our lives or our scoots if we get stuck in paranoia or depression over the failings of the world.

Ooops! Sorry; seems like any discussion of theft prevention as a practical matter will somehow inevitably turn into social-politico-philosophical, ummmm, chin-music. Apologies; didn't mean to do that. It's just that I have myself fallen into anger/rage/depression over the garden variety facts of life, and that can be toxic. Like they say: the fear of crime can become worse than crime itself. Thus endeth the sermon :wink:
honi soit qui mal y pense
rv-rick
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:09 pm
Location: VA

Post by rv-rick »

redhandmoto wrote:
ericalm wrote: I'd love to see a pic of this if you get the chance!

Kryptonite and others make anchors that work pretty much like your DIY solution. Some have the advantage of being less obtrusive than something sticking up from the ground.

Sure thing - here 'tis, between the pavers outside our side door, ready to have the Krypto passed through. A very cheap-o solution.

A tad overbuilt: didn't really need all that concrete, and an 18" pipe would have been enough. The biggest cost - $15 - was having the tee fitting welded to the end - actually, I had tees welded-on at both ends so that the pipe couldn't be turned out of the lump of concrete.

Doesn't get in the way of lawnmowers or anything; I ride right over it all the time... if I were a scoot thief, I'd find this depressing...


Image
In one of my previous posts, I questioned whether a piece of plate steel could be welded to the lower frame with a hole large enough to pass a U-lock through. That, combined with the buried pipe idea seems a step up from a chain. Just my .02.
I recently lost the key to my Kryptonite U-lock. My 36" bolt cutters didn't do more than make a mark on it. My portable electric grinder did make short work of it. (Very noisy, though.) The new models went away from the Ace lock to something supposedly more secure.
Stormswift
Member
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:22 am
Location: Maryland

Post by Stormswift »

I agree with comment about insurance. Anything we do to secure our scooters is a deterrent at best. I am also ticked off that I have to go through such lengths and expence to prevent some no good lazy bum from taking my property that I paid money for
Folks in the ol'e Wild West had the right solution when it came to dealing with horse and cattle thieves. I would have made a great frontier town sheriff or a hanging judge!!!!
I am not a scooter snob.
I am a scooter connoisseur
Keys
Member
Posts: 2037
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: Next to a big dirt lot.
Contact:

Post by Keys »

redhandmoto wrote: That's a little upsetting to we who are used to a less, uh, vulnerable milieu, but rather than become depressed, maybe we should adjust our mindset a bit to "reasonable": it is reasonable that we periodically repair and re-paint our house, for instance, to reasonably prevent it's "loss" to natural wear and breakdown.

Theft has always existed, and will always exist, just as rust, natural decay, and material wear. Despair about those things is counterproductive; we can enjoy neither our lives or our scoots if we get stuck in paranoia or depression over the failings of the world.

Ooops! Sorry; seems like any discussion of theft prevention as a practical matter will somehow inevitably turn into social-politico-philosophical, ummmm, chin-music. Apologies; didn't mean to do that. It's just that I have myself fallen into anger/rage/depression over the garden variety facts of life, and that can be toxic. Like they say: the fear of crime can become worse than crime itself. Thus endeth the sermon :wink:
No. I refuse to condone or even accept bad behavior. I will not excuse it either, simply because it exists. Yes, it has alway been and yes, it always will be, but when it affects me, I will deal with it. And NOT by simply accepting that it happened. You slap me, I will slap you AND probably punch you in the nose. You steal from me, I will attempt to find you and see that you are punished in the most severe way possible. Fear crime? No. Pursue retribution and punishment, yes.

Thus endeth MY sermon.

--Keys
"Life without music would Bb"
User avatar
redhandmoto
Member
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:37 am

Post by redhandmoto »

Keys wrote: [No. I refuse to condone or even accept bad behavior. I will not excuse it either, simply because it exists. Yes, it has alway been and yes, it always will be, but when it affects me, I will deal with it. And NOT by simply accepting that it happened. You slap me, I will slap you AND probably punch you in the nose. You steal from me, I will attempt to find you and see that you are punished in the most severe way possible. Fear crime? No. Pursue retribution and punishment, yes.

Thus endeth MY sermon.

--Keys
Uh huh...say, that great, big NO; what or who are you replying to?

Were you - maybe - a little too quick to assume that I was urging anybody to accept theft?

'Cause that ain't right and it ain't true, and if so, why, then you've set up a 'strawman': attacking an argument or statement that wasn't made.

Take another, calmer look there, Cowpoke: acceptance that theft exists without getting crazy over it is something else; that means preparing and responding to the threat intelligently, not rolling-over and taking it.

This thread, from the OP up to here, has been about measures to prevent and deter theft. There is some other thread, someplace, about one-on-one justice; that seems to be where you need to reply. Shoot, over on that other thread where's I, personally, am gettin' up a necktie party.

Meanwhile, no one here is suggesting that you should allow thieves to have their way with you. I am sure that you do not intend to come across as the Internet Chuck Norris; you may be as sure that I am not the Internet Mohandas K. Ghandi.
honi soit qui mal y pense
User avatar
KABarash
Member
Posts: 2049
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:48 pm
Location: Depends on where I happen to be.

Post by KABarash »

Stormswift wrote: Folks in the ol'e Wild West had the right solution when it came to dealing with horse and cattle thieves. I would have made a great frontier town sheriff or a hanging judge!!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:



MY exact sentiments!!
Aging is mandatory, growing up is optional.
My kids call me 'crazy', I prefer 'Eccentric'.
Nullius in verba
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

That's about all of the personal philosophy on justice and retribution we need here. Getting a bit too political and argument-y.

Thanks, Mgmt.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
User avatar
redhandmoto
Member
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:37 am

Post by redhandmoto »

redhandmoto wrote: Ooops! Sorry; seems like any discussion of theft prevention as a practical matter will somehow inevitably turn into social-politico-philosophical, ummmm, chin-music. Apologies; didn't mean to do that...
honi soit qui mal y pense
iMoses

Post by iMoses »

No matter what I do to secure my scooter I fully understand that it is a deterrent at best.

At work I cable my scoot to a 20' tall tree. And parked next to me is a guy who owns a Zuma. He doesn't cable his scoot, so a thief is more likely to take his over mine.
TVB

Post by TVB »

You don't need to outrun the bear; you just need to outrun the other person. :)
User avatar
ddietzy
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:36 pm
Location: Richmond

Post by ddietzy »

Very well said. A+ on this write up!

Cheers
User avatar
julesagogo
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Richmond VA

Post by julesagogo »

Resurrecting an old topic now that we're seeing a surge of thefts...has anyone used a grip-lock like this for a quick errand? Seems like it would keep someone from lifting the front while the steering column is locked and using the back tire for a speedy roll-away. I realize it won't keep two guys from lifting the scoot. Seems a bit easier than the disc alarm to use.
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

julesagogo wrote:Resurrecting an old topic now that we're seeing a surge of thefts...has anyone used a grip-lock like this for a quick errand? Seems like it would keep someone from lifting the front while the steering column is locked and using the back tire for a speedy roll-away. I realize it won't keep two guys from lifting the scoot. Seems a bit easier than the disc alarm to use.
It is quicker and easier than a disc alarm. I wouldn't use it as sole security or in place of a disc alarm as an overnight solution (depending on where you park).
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
User avatar
jprestonian
Member
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:47 pm
Location: Smyrna, TN
Contact:

Post by jprestonian »

When I once borrowed a buddy's Buddy for a few days, I took the plastic panel out right under the front of the seat, giving me plenty of room to run a chain completely through the frame in front of the cylinder head. Before returning the scoot, I replaced the panel. No muss, very little fuss.
.
strambley
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: DC

Post by strambley »

I have to say this is my favorite lock ever. never a problem. I lock to the rear wheel, being careful not to burn myself. it's great

http://www.amazon.com/OnGuard-5017LPT-B ... ith+t+lock
User avatar
Rusty Shackleford
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Richmond VA

Post by Rusty Shackleford »

strambley wrote:I have to say this is my favorite lock ever. never a problem. I lock to the rear wheel, being careful not to burn myself. it's great

http://www.amazon.com/OnGuard-5017LPT-B ... ith+t+lock
I'm also in Richmond, VA. I talked with Chelsea from Scoot Richmond for a while about theft protection when buying the Buddy for my lady. We ended up with this chain lock as well. It's very heavy but fits easily under the seat. That thing really is a "beast". Pricey, but worth it.
C'mon, sko sko sko!
User avatar
BootScootin'FireFighter
Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:11 am
Location: (Metro DC) Alexandria, Virginia
Contact:

Post by BootScootin'FireFighter »

Rusty Shackleford wrote:
strambley wrote:I have to say this is my favorite lock ever. never a problem. I lock to the rear wheel, being careful not to burn myself. it's great

http://www.amazon.com/OnGuard-5017LPT-B ... ith+t+lock
I'm also in Richmond, VA. I talked with Chelsea from Scoot Richmond for a while about theft protection when buying the Buddy for my lady. We ended up with this chain lock as well. It's very heavy but fits easily under the seat. That thing really is a "beast". Pricey, but worth it.
I know I'm wearing this video link out, but make sure you take up all available slack when using a chain as a lasso around the floorboard. This is the exact fashion in which my wifes Buddy was stolen, with the chain being too loose and left exactly the way it was locked to the metal railing it was attached to. Another option is to lock it to the solid frame part that the centerstand is attached to. This theft happened very close to my apartment and only a few days apart.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/01fBflJh3x4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
User avatar
Rusty Shackleford
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Richmond VA

Post by Rusty Shackleford »

Watching that video pissed me off that someone would decide they can just take another person's personal property like that. :x

OnGaurd T-loop Beast lock...

Image


Run the T-bar through the slot in the rim, which on a Buddy is exactly the right size coincidentally enough. Loop only the sheathed part of the chain around a fixed object.
C'mon, sko sko sko!
User avatar
BootScootin'FireFighter
Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:11 am
Location: (Metro DC) Alexandria, Virginia
Contact:

Post by BootScootin'FireFighter »

Taking the rear wheel off is a lot easier then you'd expect. 4 bolts to drop the exhaust, another 4 that support the tailpipe, then just 1 large bolt that needs only a breaker bar. If your leaving it outside overnight, you might want to consider another option. Wheel could be off in 10 minutes.
User avatar
Rusty Shackleford
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Richmond VA

Post by Rusty Shackleford »

:wtf: I'd rather it require taking the bike apart and rendering it inoperable than being able to cut and remove the chain then roll it off. Still, what else would you guys recommend for security? I've seen talks of alramed disk locks, but have also heard they're overly sensitive. Do they make them with remotes to turn them off? Otherwise, I'd consider having a remote motorcycle alarm and/or gps trackers installed. I also keep this scooter covered and chained to another motorcycle.
C'mon, sko sko sko!
TVB

Post by TVB »

I don't know about the 4T Buddies, but on my 50 there's a U-shaped pipe located under the floor, about where the tip of the side kickstand is when it's up. It's almost an inch thick and welded to the frame. To get out of it requires cutting metal. It's a little awkward to reach (you have to get on the ground or find it by touch), but running a chain through that (as I do every night on my front porch) has gotta be more secure than wrapping a cable around the scooter's midsection.
User avatar
Rusty Shackleford
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Richmond VA

Post by Rusty Shackleford »

Hopefully the OnGaurd Beast T-bar chain lock on the rear wheel, column lock set on the front, and bike under a cover is enough of a deterrent. With that, along with full-coverage insurance, I'm fairly comfortable. Perhaps, Xena disc lock would be a good addition. That way, both wheels would be inoperable in a theft. I like the idea of GPS tracking to assist the police in finding thieves and getting them off the streets, though. That would drop the number of thefts of other people's bikes as well.
C'mon, sko sko sko!
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

TVB wrote:I don't know about the 4T Buddies, but on my 50 there's a U-shaped pipe located under the floor, about where the tip of the side kickstand is when it's up. It's almost an inch thick and welded to the frame. To get out of it requires cutting metal. It's a little awkward to reach (you have to get on the ground or find it by touch), but running a chain through that (as I do every night on my front porch) has gotta be more secure than wrapping a cable around the scooter's midsection.
All the Buddys have this.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
User avatar
k1dude
Member
Posts: 2394
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:11 am
Location: Northern California

Post by k1dude »

Rusty Shackleford wrote:I like the idea of GPS tracking to assist the police in finding thieves and getting them off the streets, though. That would drop the number of thefts of other people's bikes as well.
The problem with GPS tracking, is I believe it requires a fairly expensive subscription. At least I haven't found a solution yet that doesn't require a monthly or yearly subscription.
User avatar
Rusty Shackleford
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Richmond VA

Post by Rusty Shackleford »

Do you guys know of any worth-while GPS services? I just started Googling them, so I have a bit of browsing before coming up with a reputable list. A small monthly fee would be fine. It'd be worth it to lead police to thieves' locations. I wanna help the scooter/motorcycle community in RVA as whole. Since vigilantism is frowned upon by the police, I figure I'd help them on the up and up. (secretly puts on Batman costume)
Last edited by Rusty Shackleford on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
C'mon, sko sko sko!
TVB

Post by TVB »

ericalm wrote:
TVB wrote:I don't know about the 4T Buddies, but on my 50 there's a U-shaped pipe located under the floor, about where the tip of the side kickstand is when it's up. It's almost an inch thick and welded to the frame. To get out of it requires cutting metal. It's a little awkward to reach (you have to get on the ground or find it by touch), but running a chain through that (as I do every night on my front porch) has gotta be more secure than wrapping a cable around the scooter's midsection.
All the Buddys have this.
Then I am totally at a loss to understand why people do that wrap-the-chain-around-it security theater instead.
User avatar
michelle_7728
Member
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Renton, WA

Post by michelle_7728 »

Found this thread in the archives. It's old, but provides lots of really good info....and I didn't even read beyond the original post!
Southerner
Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:44 am
Location: Alabama

Post by Southerner »

It brought it to my attention as well. Fortunately, I have an old, very heavy and not particularly popular MC so my risk is decreased. But it's still possible.

I assume that smaller, lighter scoots are more likely to be stolen than heavier models?

I note that the manufacturers have taken step already to prevent theft, such as the things that slide in front of the key lock. I think they may have to try something more comprehensive, such as some sort of engine lock, which would be more difficult to defeat. I think this is pretty common on cars now.
VinylDoctor
Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:31 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nv

Post by VinylDoctor »

just get a good lock and chain and full insureance,
just make sure all your mods are covered too. nothing worse then having it fully moded and only getting base value back.
Post Reply